what does this have to do with being anti-genocide?
It has nothing to do with it. It’s a straw-man argument. You could do the same kind of misdirection by comparing the number of US-related foreign conflicts under Trump vs Obama + Biden, and that wouldn’t prove anything either. The fact remains that a large portion of Kamala’s constituency wants an arms embargo and those people are being completely ignored.
Instead we get these astro-turf memes. Political marketing sure is wild this cycle
We actually won Florida. Scalia bum rushed the SCOTUS to shut down the count before we found out. Helped along by Roger Stone and that republican State Elections lady.
If only Al Gore had known there are zero consequences for telling everyone to trash the Congressional building.
Above all else I'm pro-civilian. When October 7th happened I was pro-civilian. When Israel began indiscriminately bombing Gaza killing 3-4 civilians for every Hamas in the best case scenario I was pro-civilian then, too.
Naturally if you have a paper-cut in one place and an arterial bleed elsewhere your time is best served focusing on the arterial bleed.
Does this change the fact that I think it's silly to protest Biden and Harris directly and misses the bigger picture of this election relative to the risk of wedge-driving Democrats and letting the guy in who won't even try to stop tie bleeding? No.
Anyone advocating for Palestinians is better served finding pro-Israeli voters and showing them the brutality of the IDF. When you then see a movement in the public polls, you'll see a movement in policy & platform.
Anyone advocating for Palestinians is better served finding pro-Israeli voters and showing them the brutality of the IDF.
I worry that showing the brutality of the IDF would actually encourage those voters to double down because they like what they see. Perhaps a better way is show the humanity of the Palestinian civilians.
I think PBS NewsHour has been doing a stellar job at this. They recently highlighted the father who lost his twins and his wife in a bombing. They then interviewed an American pediatrician who volunteered in Gaza. It certainly humanizes them.
I'd also remind them that IDF is so incompetent that they've killed more aid workers in this conflict than any conflict previously... Even when there is directly coordination with IDF command as instructed. They've even killed their own hostages who had their hands raised, unarmed, and with a white flag.
Republicans should never be in power ever again, period. Biggest reason isn't even what Trump would do if we had a terrorist attack.
It's global warming.
The US has a service economy and produces a quarter of all global waste/emissions. We produce that much waste without actually producing anything. At least China can claim that they MAKE stuff. We don't. We pollute for FUN.
Even if we completely reversed course and went 100% all in on renewables and climate change mitigation, we're looking at millions, possibly hundreds of millions dead in the poorest parts of the world in the coming decades because of our actions. And that's the best case scenario. The way we're headed, we're looking at the end of life as we know it.
The very least we can do is push the government towards addressing the problems we've caused, and to do that, at the bare minimum we need to make sure we never let a Republican step foot in the White House again.
Everything else pales in comparison to the kind of damage we cause every time we let a climate change denier control the direction of US policy on global warming.
I agree in principle with the idea that the ideology espoused by the current incarnation of the republican party needs to die forever.
But generally (not specifically) it's critical not to have a single party system.
If I was Sherman I'd perhaps say that the democratic party should never have power again. But obviously times and platforms change.
The fight is against ideology. As badly as I want the republican party to fuck off and die it's critical that they reincarnate as something else because in the long run a single party system isn't the answer
If you actually think Trump will be better for Palestine than Kamela... you either don't know he literally moved Israeli government buildings to Palestine owned territory or you have brain worms
You don't even need to go that far, the guy literally said that Israel is going to slow...
He also repealed a law that prevented Israeli settlements on occupied Palestinian territory. Netanyahu was so grateful, he named a settlement after Trump in Golan Heights.
Looked at your profile, mostly genocide apologia. Wow, I'm so shocked.
You seem to be under the utterly idiotic impression, that pro-palistinians will vote for Trump, someone who will continue to kill Palestinians. You are saying that just because people want one candidate to be better, and stop committing genocide, that they will vote for someone who will worsen the genocide. Almost all pro-palistinians are still voting for Harris, they just want her to pledge to stop a genocide that the US government is aiding. There is no logical process for you to have used to reach this idea. You are simply a zionist looking for approval.
Yeah, wtf, I thought I was going crazy reading this post. Palestinian protesters aren't going to vote for Trump, and them protesting the DNC is not going to increase his chances of winning.
They should keep protesting and putting pressure on the Democratic party. They should vote for Harris, but keep up the pressure, and not listen to people like OP.
Also, imagine thinking that Palestinian protestors are doing it to feel superior. They're doing it because their tax dollars have gone toward a genocide that has thus far killed 40k people. They have no choice that their money goes toward this shit. They should not have to think about whether their protest will hurt an election campaign, nor should they care. They care that their country (even when there is a Democratic president) is arming a genocide and doesn't seem like it has much plans to stop.
them protesting the DNC is not going to increase his chances of winning.
That is planely false. This election is likely to be a very close one, dictate by a handful of votes in a few key swing states. Because that's how it pretty much always is, especially in these last few elections. Even if these protest change only a small amount of votes, it will have a massive effect on the chances.
Also, imagine thinking that Palestinian protestors are doing it to feel superior.
That may not be the explicit goal. However the never Harris crowd is putting women, the LGBT, the environment, the poor, and other people at risk because their own comfort is more important to them. Yes, Harris is fucking terrible. But the deaths of Palestinians will be worse under Trump, and will also lead to the deaths of more people over all. It is a trolly problem that they're willing to let more people die on, because they want to feel superior than those who are willing to pull the lever to save lives.
Here, I'll just copy paste the bit that I wrote on "why" that's not a good idea before the election is over and done with.
They are absolutely NOT the good guys. Israel is having a smaller scale preview of what we’d see if we had the same scenario happen under a Trump presidency. We should try to curb their worst instincts, but you have to win the bloody election first to do it, and somehow account for the fact that the majority of Americans do not give a shit about Palestine.
The last poll I saw on the issue, is that ranking issues from most important to least, Palestine ranked around #9. Behind everything from Immigration, Economy, Women’s rights etc. And opposing them is one of the most powerful special interest groups that exist in the US today, in a country that loves money in politics so much that we legalized bribery.
In short, the majority of Americans do not give a fuck about Palestine. And AIPAC is one of the most well funded, well connected special interest groups in the US. If Harris says that now? She absolutely loses the election.
It’s not an accident that some of the most vocal Pro-Palestinian voices in congress were primaried.
In that political climate, the best you can do is to do harm mitigation and make sure Republicans aren’t in the driver’s seat come 2025.
Yes, I’m being pragmatic. And I’d fucking hope you would be too, when millions of lives are at stake. I donated to Palestine for 20 years. Even back when I was living on a shoestring budget while I was in college. Do the feel good shit AFTER 11/20. I’ll be right there with you.
And for the love of god, vote.
Nobody gives a shit about nonvoters in this country. If you wanted to actually affect policy, a half a dozen congressmen that are willing to throw a wrench in things to get their way goes a LOT further than useless yammering about how you’re not going to vote because ‘both sides are bad’. We needed a few more, but we just lost two that we already had, because folks decided they'd rather talk shit than bother showing up for the primaries.
A couple of Blue Dogs managed to derail single payer healthcare. We could absolutely do the same for the Palestinian issue, if you could be bothered to get off your ass and vote. Sure, they'll lose their seats in the next election, just like the blue dogs did, but the job will be done. In the meantime, how about we don't throw out the baby with the bath water, because if Trump wins, there won't be anything or anyone left to save.
Over 55% support at least conditional aid to Israel. The notion that most Americans don't care about the genocide in Gaza is entirely false. Just because it's not a top issue when comparing to others like immigration or abortion does not mean voters don't care. The anti-genocide protestors are Democratic Voters, they are likely voters. These are the kind of voters that go door knocking, the kind of voters you want if you want to win a campaign.
Pivoting left on Gaza is critical if Harris wants to secure a Victory. Hundreds of thousands of likely voters all over swing states would be gained of Harris makes Israel a partisan issue. That pivot would gain her massive support and momentum, especially in critical swing states. It's correct on a moral standpoint, it's correct on a political standpoint, it's also correct on the standpoint of international law.
An April 2024 poll of likely voters across the U.S. found that 30% strongly supported withholding military funds to Israel until the attacks on Gaza stop; another 25% somewhat supported that conditional aid policy.
Below we asked all respondents what minimum combination of policies would secure (for non-Biden voters) or solidify (for Biden voters) a vote for Biden for President. A third or more voters in every state except Minnesota said a lasting ceasefire was among the minimum policies that would be needed to secure solidify their votes
Although voters are split on whether they approve or disapprove of Biden’s handling of the war, the vast majority (≥ ~75%) across all states still support an immediate and permanent ceasefire. Only a small minority of voters, from 11.2% to 16.1% in Minnesota and Pennsylvania, respectively, strongly approve of the President’s approach on Gaza. Of those, the vast majority in each state (≥64%) strongly support an immediate and permanent ceasefire. That is to say, a change in approach would not lose those votes, but staying on the current path risks doing so.
Get fucked zionist.
Yeah I'm sure repeatedly saying that Trump is gonna be worse over and over is gonna win over the Palestinian-Americans who's families are still in the region and will continue to be at risk for being killed if nothing is done. And with everyone saying this election will be close leaving those votes on the table and just expecting them to follow along cause at least the Democrats won't directly get involved seems like a bad strategy.
This assumes that the protesters won't vote for Harris come election time.
Protests are important - especially obnoxious, inconvenient ones. If Harris and the general public can't ignore the protesters, Harris is more likely to act on the protested issue instead of sidestepping it.
unless an arms embargo is put into place before the election, I will not be voting for harris. if the PSL is on the ballot in my state, I will be voting for them, otherwise it'll probably be Stein. I'm sure I'm far from the only person with this opinion.
unfortunately, with her responses to Palestinian protestors at her campaign events (the whole "I'm speaking" debacle), and the administration averaging about 1-2 arms shipments to Israel a day since October, I don't see her campaign walking back their stance and imposing an embargo, so she's probably not getting my vote.
If she's serious about wanting to win, I think she needs to pivot hard on Gaza. There are so many that would want to vote for Harris if she just made that change. And I can't blame any of them for it, having pro-genocide be a red-line is completely valid. It's completely insane that Trump can get away with acting like the peace ticket, wtf has happened to the Democratic party since 2016. Somehow it's the pro-war and anti-immigration party now, even though those kind of voters will still ride Republican regardless.
tldr: they support the Palestinian genocide because it will stop global warming(see below for "details")
this is a bad post.
...
what's your math here?
pro-palestinian protesters vote republican? or don't vote?
i don't see the line you're trying to draw.
The IDF is concluding a genocide that most countries have been complicit in for decades.
people are upset about that and protesting.
you're not making any sense.
UPDATE: this is their math they gave me:
Apparently the hope of OP is that if the genocide against Palestine can be completed, global warming won't be so bad in a few decades.
Not a great post.
OP is making fun of some of the actors here on Lemmy who will go "I won't vote for genocide! I'm voting 3rd party!" Which because of America's broken ass electoral system, will absolutely let Trump win, and we end up with a new Bush + Iraq 2.0, as 3rd party candidates basically helped give Bush the presidency by 200 votes and kicked off two decades of fucking bullshit and ridiculously bad climate policies that will only get worse. Vs Harriss who has thrown a lot of support behind legit climate policies
It's a really obtuse way of posting a "congratulations you played yourself" meme at single issue 3rd party voters
Oh kay, thanks.
I appreciate you shedding some light on the thought process here.
for W, I'd point a lot more to the Supreme Court allowing Florida(run by Ws brother) to stop counting votes again because W was about to lose the count again before I'd blame 3rd party voters.
And gerrymandering.
And voter disqualification/obfuscation.
literally wheeling away voting machines on election day too.
Nah, people voted who they voted for, and that's their right.
there's plenty of much more significant factors to point at without denigrating the right to vote.
and I'm not railing at you, i appreciate the context.
Here, I made you a picture, this seemed like it'd be more your speed, if you had trouble following that argument.
They're also protesting the republicans, but don't let facts get in the way of you trying to tell everyone that you're superior to people protesting genocide. 😉
They should only be protesting the Gee Oh Pee
They're protesting against genocide, so it's fitting they protest against those who aid genocide. Democrats are currently in power and are fully supporting israel's campaign of genocide, so they deserve to be protested against. If democrats do not want to be protested, they could stop their support for genocide. This does not seem like too much to ask for, right?
Imagine thinking anything would have been different had a Democrat been at the helm when 9/11 happened. Trying to ridicule people of conscience will regularly not go how you expect.
It's actually theorized that Bush being ultimately elected was what caused 9/11 to slip past the usual degree of scrutiny already in place.
The delay in beginning the transition process from Bush suing over the recounts meant that the usual reports on the plans that had been uncovered weren't delivered until whoever had gotten them would be having to prioritize what to look at, and Bush is not famous for his ability to prioritize well.
Had Gore Won, there's a non zero chance he could have been riding into the midterm election cycle on having stopped what would have been the most catastrophic attack on America since Pearl Harbor.
Feeling like more protests should be happening where netanyahu can see them.. but what do I know 🤷
I'd like it for the protests to have an actionable outcome that helps everyone involved, however this doesn't seem to be the goal of them. Lots of astroturfing, lots of bad-faith arguments.
Keep in mind this is an election year, there's always fuckery and pressure from outside influences during election years.
