Megathread for Reddit Blackouts and News - Rest of the Week(?)
Megathread for Reddit Blackouts and News - Rest of the Week(?)
hey everyone. if you want to post links or discuss the Reddit blackout, its aftermath, and what's happening going forward, please localize it to this thread in order to keep things tidy! thanks! we'll see if we need to cycle the thread again before the end of this week, but i don't know that we'll need to
Troubling update from the Reddit admins. They are planning to remove mods from any subs that decide to stay private and hand them over to scabs. This goes back on their previous statements that subs had a right to protest and go private. Mods of one large community have already been contacted by the admins and told that "if you decide to close your community going forward, our Code of Conduct team will reach out with next steps". Which is a fresh take on "nice kneecaps, shame if something happened to them".
According to a screenshot shared in the modcoord discord, there's already a facist trying to take over /r/aww. The user is a former T_D mod, a sub which was actively involved in the January 6 riots and known for its misconduct across Reddit. These are the people that spez wants to empower.
Redditinc.com's fact(oid)s about the API changes.
Includes such BS as
100,000+ active communities
Technically true. But it's estimated that between 1/3 and 1/2 are NSFW. That is, the subs they don't want shown at their (mythical) IPO.
Supporting these apps is not free for Reddit; they incur both infrastructure and significant opportunity costs.
Technically true. But so does the official app, and web browsers. API calls are not some sort of special magic that causes extra wear on the systems. If the users never had the third party apps they'd be using something else, causing the same traffic and usage - or using nothing at all.
Reddit needs to be a self-sustaining business and to do that, we can no longer subsidize commercial entities that require large-scale data use from our API.
Again, third party apps are no more of a drain on data use than anything else. It's been proven, but Spez keeps pushing this lie.
Many other platforms have chosen to stop supporting apps like these altogether.
Objection! Facts not in evidence.
more than 98% of apps do not pay and will continue to access the Data API for free so long as apps are not monetized [...].
Emphasis mine. This is the real story.
Our pricing is based on usage levels comparable to our own costs
Either this is an outright lie or Spez is admitting that the official Reddit app is an inefficient, data monching, piece of garbage.
We're working to improve the mobile mod experience
Spez has been promising rainbows for years but all we ever get is poop. Or just the smell of poop. That the mobile apps were released without proper moderator tools tells you what he thinks of moderators.
We have a unique system of checks and balances, and we respect the communities right to protest.
Clearly a lie, given that Spez is going to change the rules to force out moderators who choose to follow their sub's wishes to protest.
r/nottheonion is asking users to vote, including a fun option that encourages people to take Tuesdays off
The "fun option" is an official means of joining the protest. Can he stop lying for 10 seconds?
We conducted an accessibility audit with an external consultant and have been working on improving accessibility on the site and in our apps.
Yes, much smarter than actually TALKING TO YOUR OWN USERS AND SEEING WHAT THEY WANT. Oh, they want what you refuse to do? Gee, what a surprise!
Nothing says ableism more than telling people with disabilities that they have no agency in how or if they get accommodations. (Sadly, the ADA does not apply to Reddit as a website.)
In summary, Spez needs to be fired. Preferably out of a cannon, into the sun.
@alyaza
I stopped using reddit, don't want to participate in this crime. There's high possibility that reddit will not change direction, it's better give a chance to alternatives and learn something new.https://mastodon.social/@robotdeathsquad/110543755195398954
Every time you hear the Reddit CEO talking about how they need to become profitable, remember they raised $250m and then spent the last couple years building this: https://nft.reddit.com
I created this addon for Firefox to redirect all reddit pages to archive.org.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/reddit-to-wayback-machine/(I'd need to update to MV3 to port it to chrome, and I don't know yet how have this functionality without webRequest)
The Verge: Full Interview: Reddit CEO Steve Huffman Isn’t Backing Down
TL;DR He is doubling down without really answering the important questions. Not why the deadline is so short (they've been talking about API changes forever), not if there could be a more reasonable pricing (=no) amd he doesn't acknowlwdge there's any value for Reddit from 3P apps.
And so, it begins https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14aeq5j/new_admin_post_if_a_moderator_team_unanimously/
Reddit CEO slams protest leaders, saying he'll change rules that favor ‘landed gentry’
Reddit CEO Steve Huffman said Thursday that he wants to bring an end to a user-led protest that has made large parts of the influential website inaccessible this week. Huffman said in an interview that he plans to institute rules changes that would allow Reddit users to vote out moderators who have overseen the protest, comparing them to a “landed gentry.”
The protest took down thousands of message boards, known as subreddits, starting Monday, and some communities say they plan to continue the action indefinitely. The action has been led by Reddit’s unpaid, volunteer moderators, who have a high level of control over how their subreddits are run. Participating communities went “private,” making them unviewable even to members. The protesters oppose changes that will most likely cut off their ability to access Reddit through third-party apps, and their action has hobbled much of the site.
Huffman, also a Reddit co-founder, said he plans to pursue changes to Reddit’s moderator removal policy to allow ordinary users to vote moderators out more easily if their decisions aren’t popular. He said the new system would be more democratic and allow a wider set of people to hold moderators accountable.
Reddit’s current policy says moderators may be removed by higher-ranking moderators or by Reddit itself for inactivity or violations of Reddit-wide rules. They may also remove themselves. Many have held their positions for years.
“If you’re a politician or a business owner, you are accountable to your constituents. So a politician needs to be elected, and a business owner can be fired by its shareholders,” he said.
“And I think, on Reddit, the analogy is closer to the landed gentry: The people who get there first get to stay there and pass it down to their descendants, and that is not democratic.”
Moderators have argued that the high level of control over their communities is well-deserved because of the hours of free labor they’ve put into making and enforcing rules on their subreddits. Any plan to reduce their influence might result in another backlash.
Huffman, who co-founded Reddit 18 years ago this month, said he believes the leaders of the protest may have had popular support when it started Monday but have lost most of it since.
Judging by the newsprint from today; it feels like spez is still lost in his own delusion.
Right now he's at the bargaining stage; trying to find out if he can weasel his way out of this shit. Fuck him. He dug his own career's grave there. I've already established a community here on lemmy.
If they want their subs back so badly, let them take them. They can deal with moderation (or finding any decent mods at all) on their own.
Good luck with that, Reddit admins. lol.
I never stopped using RSS. I follow many sites and blogs using The Old Reader in my desktop browser, with Reeder piggybacking off its OPML file on my phone and iPad.
TOR was designed specifically with compatibility with Google Reader in mind and shares many of the old keyboard shortcuts. It also has rudimentary social features that are in no way in-your-face (good thing, too, because I never really saw the point of them).
https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/16/23763661/reddit-rif-is-fun-developer-ceo-steve-huffman
RIF developer pushing back on Huffman's claims that RIF didn't want to work with Reddit by releasing emails.
Reddit users continue their blackout protest against the platform's new pricing plan, which will force several popular third-party apps to shut down or pay up starting July 1. While some subreddits have reopened, moderators of r/aww, r/videos, and r/music have kept their forums closed, holding out for more movement from Reddit's executives.
Over 300 other subreddits are still private, and moderators are polling their users to gauge interest before joining the indefinite shutdowns. CEO Steve Huffman's leaked memo, which warned employees not to sport a Reddit logo in public, has been criticized for "trivializing" the concerns of moderators and volunteers who maintain much of the platform.
source: tldrdaily.news
Reddit says they're not against replacing mods of blacked out subs. It's so over for them https://www.macrumors.com/2023/06/15/reddit-threatens-to-remove-subreddit-moderators/
This article is absolutely scathing, great read.
Welp.
Looks like a lot of mods are caving.
The excuse: "if the mods didn't open the sub, they'll replace them with shills". 'Kay. And now that we know these mods will do what the admins ask when their precious power is threatened?
Well, I guess sabotage is valid approach, so I give the mods who are doing that at least a bit of credit.
/r/pics is making a stand in its own weird way.
/r/Steam just caved without much of a fight, if their sticky is anything to go by. While the mods aren't doing anything, it does seem like there's a bit of a user revolt where a few people are just posting pictures of literal water vapor (ie. "steam").
/r/piracy mods seemed to give them enough of an issue that the admins de-modded the top mod and forced the sub open, but the mods seems to be taking the approach of "only sticking around to give you the coordinates to our new island".
Honestly, though, it's kind of hilarious that reddit considers /r/piracy of all subs to be integral to the site. How many times have they tried to shut it down now?
Everyone on that sub should just spam Nintendo stuff. Like, nothing else. Watching reddit piss off Nintendo and getting C&Ds from them would be oddly cathartic.
One of two things happens if people do that: A) the mods trying to "save" it have to actually keep it restricted to prevent getting DMCAs (lol, the irony), or B) admins just nuke the sub. Either are a win, IMO. Seems like they're giving their users enough time to migrate and they're probably going to jump ship soon.
If this is true, then it's not good news
Some hackernews folk are saying their changes were reversed https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36354850
https://www.platformer.news/p/reddit-doubles-down
According to Casey Newton, "It seems also notable that Reddit is moving to centralize control of its ecosystem at the precise time that the rest of industry has begun to explore more federated models. When even Meta is preparing to launch a decentralized social network, it’s fair to ask whether Reddit has misread the moment."
My take: Reddit's API/IPO debacle puts them on the wrong side of history, as they double down on an outdated and unpopular social media model. Times are changing. What do you think?
Rest of the week? No.
The answer is until they lower to a more reasonable price and work with Apollo and RIF (at the very least) so that they can keep their apps running while transitioning their users to a new pricing structure that will allow them to not be bankrupted in the short term because of the price adjustment.
German it magazine iX has an interview with the mods of r/de. I don't know if this was mentioned here before...
Short summary: the mods of the large German communities see a huge issue with reddit not recognizing content creators and mods work and there seems to be growing support for an ongoing blackout or so they say.
Huffman / spez is trying to follow the same outrage farming playbook that countless other rich guys like Trump and Musk have followed.
- Gain money and/or control over something prominent that more or less works
- Identify targets that you want to hurt or screw over
- Make big changes that damage the thing you control with no time for your targets to adjust
- When your targets complain or protest, double down and don’t apologize or change course
- Cultivate a critical mass of smoothbrained useful idiots that enjoy the way you stick to your guns and hurt others
- ?????
- Profit. Literally. You’ll have a smaller base, but they’re loyal and you can make money off of them.
The question is whether spez will get to step 5. He’s already gotten to step 4.
https://9to5mac.com/2023/06/15/reddit-blackout-third-party-apps/
Loving the Reddit dumpster fire thumbnail image they included. Mostly covering TheVerge's Huffman interview and pointing out how dumb he sounds as CEO.
I think a lot is riding on Reddit's promised rollout of new mod tools. If the new mod tools aren't available before the 1st, or if they're woefully inadequate compared to those of third party apps, a lot of mods are going to be upset. Particularly those moderating large subs.
I am pretty sure some of my comments about ellen pao spez and how bad of a decision they are making got straight up deleted from reddit alternatives yesterday.
A nice summary of why everyone is so angry, by Christial Selig:
https://mas.to/@christianselig@mastodon.social/110572053161618054
BlackCat claims they hacked Reddit and will leak the data
Operators broke into Reddit on February 5, 2023, and took 80 gigabytes (zipped) of data. Reddit was emailed twice by operators, once on April 13 and one again on June 16.
There was no attempt to find out what we took.
In our last email to them, we stated that we wanted $4.5 million in exchange for the deletion of the data and our silence. As we also stated, if we had to make this public, then we now demand that they also withdraw their API pricing changes along with our money or we will leak it.
We expect to leak the data.
To be honest, maybe I should care about Reddit politics but I don't really. And so I feel like the mods of the communities I enjoyed are forcing me into protest against my will. But seemingly they have the power to effectively shut Reddit down and so here we are.
The biggest loss is tech support topics. Most useful Google searches lead to Reddit.
Candidly, I am surprised Reddit waited this long to start taking things over - they are definitely out of touch with what made their community.
