What are your thoughts on possible historical depictions of UFOs/UAP like "10 Historic Paintings That Clearly Show UFOs"?
What are your thoughts on possible historical depictions of UFOs/UAP like "10 Historic Paintings That Clearly Show UFOs"?
Many ancient wall paintings are said to show flying objects and visitors from outer space. But these images also appear in classic, commissioned pieces of
While the provided list is more of an example than anything, I have the impression there is countless historical records of possible sightings - From ancient descriptions of legendary flying fire chariots to paintings containing objects surprisingly similar to modern descriptions of UFO's.
We know people describe unknown events with the best words they have. Modern examples can be when firescene investigations get testimonies that "The fire jumped from seat to seat". Does fire even have legs to jump with? I would not be surprised if ancient stories about "wheels within wheels" or "Flying chariots of fire" could be describing events they simply didn't have words for.
With all of the stories that could be interpreted as ancient stories of UFO's, even if just a small percentage of the are real - It would mean the UFO phenomenon have interacted with earth for at least thousands of years.
What is your thoughts on this, anything to it? Do you have different estimates? Do you think the phenomena started in 1947? Is it all just a pop-cultural mediaindustrial hoax complex?
You have to remember ancient people had about .000001% of a modern human's general knowledge and visual references when describing their experiences. Also there was no eye doctor so by adulthood a lot of people had untreated visual issues. Look at how ancient descriptions of manatees somehow became beautiful women with fins. Read descriptions of elephants by Romans seeing them for the first time thinking they were stone monsters. And that's all assuming people are sober and in reasonably good mental health.
Ancient accounts of 'UFOs' are no different than ancient accounts of angels or demons. There's reasonable evidence that they are descriptions of known phenomenon and zero evidence that they are paranormal.
Ancient accounts of ‘UFOs’ are no different than ancient accounts of angels or demons. There’s reasonable evidence that they are descriptions of known phenomenon and zero evidence that they are paranormal.
I believe this is the logical stance to take; however, it's enjoyable to speculate. If UAPs are of non-prosaic explanations, then perhaps it would be perfectly reasonable to look back at our history, specifically at these ancient depictions, through a different lens.
There’s reasonable evidence that they are descriptions of known phenomenon
From the descriptions of the vimanas of ancient India to the depictions of celestial crafts in meso-america, I'd argue there are quite a lot of material that falls outside of "reasonably explained". I'll even argue that disputes over the original function or intention of ancient objects are not uncommon, even outside the "potential alien stuff" category.
I'm also a bit surprised you put both UFO's and angels/demons in the same category. Would you not agree that there's a lot of evidence accepted by modern science for UFO's, not so much for angels and demons?
Would you not agree that there’s a lot of evidence accepted by modern science for UFO’s
In the sense that some flying objects are unidentified, or more appropriately- that some aerial phenomenon are unidentified- of course. But as far as common 'UFO speculation' about UAP- no. There's as much evidence that UAP represent angels or demons as anything else.
Of course the case for angels vs aliens in the universe is a different conversation. But in terms of assuming that unidentified phenomenon necessarily represent 'flying objects' moving in ways that defy even theorized properties of any material, or that these assumptions can be explained by the presence of advanced technological intelligence on Earth- 'its aliens' is about as well supported as 'its angels'.
Difficult to explain, and the writer shows some fear that seems appropriate for the time period. The writer doesn't speculate as to what they saw out of fear of reprisal from God, and otherwise seems terrified in general. Also written accounts are rare.
I think we should remember, however, that humanity can be pretty creative from our own perspective. Look at Hollywood for the things we're capable of dreaming up, and then bear in mind that humanity has had that creative spark for its entire lifespan. There's a surprisingly good chance that the whole aliens thing is a phantom in the human gestalt, something that enough of us have wished to be real and enough others have hoaxed into life that it now has a life of its own.
I was going to bring up the same. I feel like a lot of art particularly from Renaissance on took some artistic liberties and we may be applying our views and perspectives to mold what we're seeing. There's still intriguing art there that makes you wonder why the choice was made for certain objects to be included, so we shouldn't dismiss it.
However, the incident in the art you cited of Nuremberg was supposedly witnessed by many people. What it was is still up for speculation. But, this event and art are what come to my mind first when thinking of pre-Roswell potential sightings.
That's a personal favorite of mine as well.
That's a great example. I've seen it before but forgot how detailed it was and how many saw it.
There’s a surprisingly good chance that the whole aliens thing is a phantom in the human gestalt
Absolutely. And it doesn't even have to be a social phenomenon, I'm not dismissive of social engineering as cover ups for i.e. hyperadvanced but very human military technology.
There's a long line of explanations based mostly in the knowledge or superstition of the time, revised with every new bit of knowledge or commonly accepted superstition. My conclusions might very well be a product of this.
I'd still argue there's a difference in the approach of "modern" historians, investigators and the likes. Where we used to have a belief, confirmed by observable phenomenons, we (or at least more than before) now have a lack of belief with our worldview built upon observable phenomenons and verification through reproducibility.
Yet we're in the intersection between the differing worldviews; I think those who hold the possibility of extraterrestrial, intelligent origins for unknown phenomenons are closer to the truth than those who know it's aliens.
There's still a lot of superstition in modern Ufology.
This may be a bridge too far for some people, however, I find the Wandjina site to be intriguing. The children of the alleged Ariel School UFO Incident who claimed to witness a landed craft and beings whom they claim communicated telepathically all drew pictures of the encounter. There was a few pictures (I'll try to find them later) of these alleged beings they saw that arguably look like what is painted at Wandjina.
While this may seem a stretch for some, I personally find the Wandjina site quite intriguing. The children involved in the alleged Ariel School UFO Incident, who claimed to have witnessed a landed craft and beings with whom they communicated telepathically. A few of these children drew pictures. There was one particular picture (which I will attempt to locate) that depicts a head with small lines emanating from it, reminiscent of the Wandjina imagery.
the Wandjina site
That's pretty interesting. While depictions like that might be too abstract to give us an accurate depiction, I think it might show us some of the general visual impressions the artist was left with. But after what? Meeting aliens or tripping on shrooms in front of a camp fire after listening to stories about spirits?
When there's echoes in history like you mention about the Ariel School episode, I think it's worth looking in to, or at least be aware of. I've heard about the encounter, but not in relation to any ancient stuff.