When I was an E4, I worked with a piece of shit E6 who decided he hated me for no reason one day. I had never been disrespectful to him but he went out of his way to try and get me in trouble and was just generally a dick to me every chance he could be. His attempts to get me in trouble all failed because literally I did nothing wrong. He once told me I needed to respect him because he was an E6 and had earned it. I told him I give his rank the respect it deserves, I stand at parade rest when talking to him, I answered his questions respectfully with a "Yes, Sergeant" or "No, Sergeant" but due to the way he treats me and started treating me like crap for no reason, I did not and would not respect him as a person. He did not like that, but there literally wasn't anything he could do about it. He told me I needed to drop out of college and focus 100% of my efforts on being a soldier and I should just do everything he says because he outranks me. I told him the Army is not my career, I'm doing my 4 years and getting out, and so ETS'ing with a degree is more important to me than spending that time to go above and beyond the standards the Army required. And of this was said respectfully, and was overheard by his section lead, so while he was upset I didn't just bend over and suck his E6 dick, he couldn't do shit about it because ultimately I was 100% in the right. My uniform was clean, pressed, had all the creases it was supposed to and my boots were shined. They weren't a mirror every day because I didn't spend 3 hours shining my boots every day, I did once a week and then kept them above the minimum standard required through the week, then my next day off I'd tear them down and rebuild the shine. So my uniform was still in better shape than most peoples so him singling me out was very much bullshit. The guy ended up getting himself in trouble more than anything else. I never got in trouble for how I treated him since ultimately I never did shit to him and always gave him the respect required for his rank. But not 1 step beyond that, and he didn't like that, but there wasn't jack shit he could do about it. His own supervisor (an E7) made him apologize to me on 2 occasions when he witnessed his bullshit.
Like when he told me to do something which that morning the E8 in charge passed down to us that we were not to do this specific thing. So when I said I couldn't do that for him over the phone, he forced me to get relieved so I could come up there and explain in person why I wouldn't do what a higher ranking NCO told me to do. So I explained according to E7 Guard Commander X, E8 Master Sergeant Y passed down these instructions. And the response was "So, Guard Commander X told you this?" "Yes, Sergeant" "That's all you had to say, get the fuck out of my office." I relayed that conversation to the Guard Commander (who was in my chain of command, this guy was not) And within 5 minutes, I was called back to his office, that his boss shared with him, and got to stand there while this E6 being glared at by his E7 boss apologized for his behavior.
Then when I was close to ETSing the dude "randomly" chose me to be piss tested every single time it was his job to conduct it. Literally on my day off while I was an hour north of post at college he couldn't find me in the barracks to "randomly" piss test me, so he told everyone if they saw me, I needed to go to him. So 4 hours later when I returned from school, I got the message, and then he chewed me out for not arriving earlier. Like bitch, its my day off, I was at college, I came as soon as I got back, what more do you want? Turns out he didn't even need me, he let slip he only needed someone with the last name starting with "R" so he was able to easily just piss test someone else. But he intentionally was singling me out to be his "R" person every single time. That guy was a piece of shit and I think exemplified this perfectly.
What is an E6/7/8? Person? Location? Job position?
Enlisted ranks in the Army (and I think most other US branches of the military too) are graded E1 through E9, E1 being Private, where you start, no authority, can't wipe their own ass without help, generally just completing basic training and AIT is enough to get you promoted to E2, Private 2nd Class, then about 6 months later you get promoted to E3, Private First Class or PFC. E4 is Specialist, the highest rank before ranks become NCOs or (Non-Commissioned Officers), E5 is Sergeant (SGT), E6 is Staff Sergeant (SSG), E7 is Sergeant First Class (SFC), E8 is Master Sergeant (MSG) or First Sergeant (1SG), and E9 is Sergeant Major (SGM) or Command Sergeant Major (CSM).
Generally (there are always exceptions to the rule) SGT are team leaders in charge of 2-4 E1-E4s, SSG's are squad leaders in charge of 3-4 E5's, SFC are are Platoon Sergeants in charge of 3-4 E6's
However working in a jail we also had positions that granted us different authority. For example, in the jail when I was working the Control Booth, even as an E4, I had authority to force even E9s to wait if I needed to for the safe operation of the jail. (Granted this would never happen, as anyone that high up in rank would have the whole facility partially locked down so there would be no inmate movement while they were there, so there would literally never be an instance where someone like that would have to wait, but if circumstances resulted in someone like that maybe showing up unannounced or what not, its very possible they would have to wait behind a door while an area of the facility had inmate movement since my position in the Control Booth and the requirements of a jail gave me specific requirements that even an E9 or General couldn't overrule).
A friend of mine got written up by an E6 Chef from the prison kitchen, that he made wait 2 minutes because of a large movement of inmates so by procedure he could not open the gate the E6 was behind. Our Platoon Sergeant (E7/SFC) got that write up, made a jerking off motion, tore it up and threw it away.
That'll be the peak of control that guy ever exerts in his life.... Which is pathetic for him. That's why he does it though. Kings of tiny kingdoms.
I was in the Navy and that story is a tale as old as time. Usually it's an E5 (Petty Officer second class) picking on an E4 (Petty Officer third class) or a brand new E4 picking on pretty much anyone below them.
As long as a Chief doesn't get involved no one seems to give a shit.
Interesting story, but I definitely got lost in the forest of contradictory orders between various E-ranks. I got the gist of it, but man, it was confusing for a bit.
Your story is my story, except I definitely was a bit more belligerent. I picked up E4 less than two years in service, which was tough as an 11, and proceeded to remain there for like another 40+ months until I fucked off, although that's a story for a different day. I consistently filled billets above my rank, and with that came dealing with dudes with rockers on the regular, and when they saw me, not a big guy, only two stripes, most scratched their heads. I generally was able to prove my competency to individuals, but there was one who just couldn't stand me and would try to correct me at every opportunity.
Our last exercise together I was just a squad leader and he was a platoon sergeant, different platoon, not in my chain of command, but constantly would try to correct me or my Marines, and that shit just didn't fly with me, especially knowing I was out of here in like three or four months, and so I would just turn up the belligerent with him, because I knew his only recourse was to either hit me or go to my chain of command, and my platoon sergeant, my platoon commander, and company gunny always had my back because I did my fucking job well, and so it'd always end there with him acting like a baby and me acting like a child.
Yeah, good times. Stupid times but good times.
I definitely knew some NCO's like that. Luckily never had any contact with the military prison system, outside of pulling a three month rotation doing perimeter security at Abu Ghraib (post-torture scandal). I enlisted mainly to pay for college, but also because I felt guilty about poor grades in high school, and thought I needed discipline and structure (untreated ADHD ftw). 9/11 happened when I was in basic, and things obviously went to shit. Got out after my 4 years as an 11B, 2 of which were spent in Iraq. Went to college, but couldn't hack it, due to aforementioned ADHD (now with new, improved PTSD!). Came to the conclusion that I wasn't good for anything else and re-enlisted. Institutionalization is a bitch.
Turns out he didn’t even need me, he let slip he only needed someone with the last name starting with “R” so he was able to easily just piss test someone else.
Wait what? What kind of a rule is that?
No idea, but that was when it suddenly made sense why he had "randomly" piss tested me 3 months in a row.
Human respect should be given, respect of an authority, I think, should be earned.
For me, there's a default level of respect that is given to a person and to a person's position that are related, but still independent of each other, and they can increase or decrease depending on a person's actions.
I wish I could think and articulate this clearly all the time.
Me tooooooo.
Wel, if it helps, it was apparently originally said by a neurodivergent child. This person is just passing it off as their own. So while you or I may not be able to articulate things this well…at least we don’t steal ideas from kids and pass them off as our own?
Way back in my 20s I had a manager who was power tripping against me stating I did not respect her. I told her that I would do as she says because she is my manager, but respect is earned. She and her boss both argued that respect is given. I gave up and a few weeks later I quit because that job (and some personal stuff) destroyed my mental health. Ultimately it was the best decision I could have made for myself at that time.
Sometimes people also use respect to mean they think you should give them respect
Respect is to be earned, not given.
Respect is given, in reasonable amounts, to everyone. Then they can gain more or lose it.
Depends where you are. I’ve grown up in that kind of culture and appreciated it - then moved somewhere where respect wasn’t given by default and you had to earn it. Same goes with trust, to some extent.
Regard is given, in near infinite amounts, to everyone. At least by people who are worthy of respect.
Depends on the meaning. Half of what the original post content was as about the multiple meanings of respect. There is a respect of the sort that one acknowledges based on conduct, trustworthiness and aptitude sure... But when people tend to talk about respect this way they are using a completely different understanding of usage that involves basically not being an ass towards someone which is what most people are referring to when they talk about "basic level respect".
The idea is that a person should be freely given get a basic level of civility and consideration. A more neutral version of respect we generally might refer to otherwise as courtesy. This is in the ideal espoused not something to be earned but to be given freely and only removed proportionally in retaliation if the person is discourteous first.
Golden rule mechanics. The world becomes a better place if everyone offers courtesy freely. Some places take this to a more extreme end. It's why some places just have the general expectation that people will follow the rules and they are basically right. They got there by making courtesy ie respect for other people and property not just a cultural norm but a point of pride .
Can confirm, everyone who has said "If you respect me, I'll respect you", has been a Grade-A Asshole
I've tried replacing "respect" with "dignity" in situations like this. I definitely don't think everyone deserves to be respected, but dignity can be afforded.
I needed this today, thank you!!
Your mistake was thinking I give a shit about your respect.
I'm assuming by "authority" this means police, judges, etc, rather than health etc
I think part of dealing with professionals should be treating the position they're in with respect, especially in regards to the situation you may be dealing with. That said, they should also be acting within the bounds of their authority and with the dignity and professionalism of whatever position.
To me, this means that I follow professional advice with some gravitas - including that of doctors or medical "authorities" in their field - because their knowledge will typically exceed my own.
For police or judges, that means I respect them when they're acting in a professional manner within the bounds of their authority, and also respecting that a situation where I interact with them under such probably requires some seriousness. Not bowing or scraping, but also not cussing them out, provoking, etc.
If I get lit up by a patrol car, I'll safely pull over and see what's up. If it's a ticket and I don't accept the reason for it, then I'll file a dispute. If I attend court, I'll be professional. If my doctor recommends an important medical procedure, I'll listen and give their words weight.
This obviously doesn't mean I need to accept if these people should abuse their authority, i.e. by giving out frivolous tickets/charges or prescribing unnecessary medication, there are appropriate ways to respond to those.
You ultimately decide on the procedure/medication. You can challenge a ticket. You can refuse to answer the questions of a police officer. You can request/hire legal council. You can challenge a decision at a higher court. Etc
But frankly I see a lot of people who end themselves up in shit by behaving in a ... less than appropriate manner. They're still people, but acting like a reckless, combative, and/or arrogant idiot isn't going to improve the situation in any way, and there seems to be a growing trend where cameras are not only catching more bad behaviour by "the authorities" but also by people who seem to think that having one makes them some sort of Tiktok movie star immune to the consequences of their actions. This includes SovCit types who want all the perks of a civilized society but reject the "authority" behind laws and legal obligations.
Points of authority
This is the Prairies in a nutshell (For Canada anyways, although it seems like the States is similar), respect is about authority there
Neither of those are the actual definition of the word. I've always interpreted it to acknowledge a person's abilities/capabilities. The big conflict of respect at my workplace seems to be older people who have worked there for 17 years not being respectful of people writing there for 8 years. They think they are the authority figure and deserve that kind of respect (as mentioned here) and treat people who have been there several years like they don't deserve the respect to make any decisions. Which is nonsense, and they are just making more work for everyone by disrupting workflow in order to prove some level of superiority.
It sounds like the post fits fairly well to your workplace, but at any rate I think the important part is that "respect" means different for different people and the core idea that some think there's a difference incoming vs outgoing is problematic.
The whole core of "treat others as you wish to be treated" is this. It's not about actions, it's about intentions. It should be "treat others with the respect and consideration you wish for them to give to you"
I saw this somewhere else
There's respecting a person's position and respecting the person themself. They're two related but still separate things.
