Haha maybe I'm getting old, but people ITT don't seem to understand that "taking nudes" and deciding who, if anyone, gets to see them should be a basic right of privacy and freedom.
You should be insulted by, and scrutinize the idea of being told what you can and can't do with your body and your data, including nudes and beyond.
"Oooo uh, shouldn't have taken nudes!" is incel rhetoric.
This has been my take forever. Maybe women want to take nudes and send them to a sweetheart or maybe she’s just feeling hot and proud of herself. Good for her. Doesn’t mean they should be available for the world to see, nor should she be victim-blamed.
Same for the sub-hominids who say a woman was asking for it after being raped because she dressed provocatively. Yeah, she might have been dressing in a way to attract someone, that’s the goddamn point. It’s her prerogative, and guess what: she has the final say as to who can interact with her. Fuck outta here with this “she was asking to get raped” bullshit. Grow up and learn some goddamn self control, it’s insulting to insinuate that we, as men, are a monolith and do not have any.
I look at it more on the level of discussing crimes via text or email or what have you. (I'm not saying sexting is or should be a crime. It's an analogy).
If you don't want it to get out, don't document it. If you don't care if it gets out, do whatever you want.
That's not to say that it wouldn't also be nice to have control over your own image nor that people shouldn't go to jail for revenge porn, etc., but once it's out there, it's out there. You can't put it back into Pandora's box. That's just how reality works.
I might get driven out of town for this but people claiming such things aren't less than you. They are either massively ignorant and being lead on by psychopaths or they are deeply disturbed and need medical attention. They are not less than you, nobody and no living creature is, in fact.
Seeing others as less than ourselves or our group is the root cause for our predicament (wars, poverty, cruelty, social injustice, etc.). I'm not saying the situation is okay. I'm saying hate isnt the answer and it changes exactly nothing, which is exactly what we're supposed to do. Instead we could start calling out our drinking buddies when they grab "dat hot ass" instead of cheering them on. Objectifying anyone (without their express approval) isnt an option.
Haha maybe I’m getting old, but people ITT don’t seem to understand that “taking nudes” and deciding who, if anyone, gets to see them should be a basic right of privacy and freedom.
You should be insulted by, and scrutinize the idea of being told what you can and can’t do with your body and your data, including nudes and beyond.
“Oooo uh, shouldn’t have taken nudes!” is incel rhetoric.
Besides, with what deepfakes can do, the whole argument is flawed from the beginning, as we know that the image of a victim can be used without her knowledge, or even without nudes in the first place. It's a violation of trust, with permanent effects on the victims...that cannot be undone even with the best efforts.
What I don't get is that this attitude means we all get less nudes. If a woman doesn't know that a man's gonna treat her intimacy with respect, she's going to hesitate before she does it. If we appreciated them enough not to leak them and not show them to others, women would have one less barrier and we'd all get more nudes.
This is the correct take, for everyone up voting the bullshit victim blaming throughout the thread. Glad I'm going in for a therapy appointment right now cuz holy shit
If I print out your righteous comment will it protect me from nude leaks?
The problem isn't the existence of nude photos. The problem is the existence of shitty people who spread those photos without your consent. And unlike a physical object, once those photos are out there, they cannot be put back. And it doesn't even have to be someone you know. One bad public Wi-Fi connection and all your photos just got uploaded to a stranger's server.
If the risk reward on that is okay with you then go have fun. We'll commiserate with you when they get stolen. But we're not going to pretend you didn't create that possibility. Just like a free climber or a sky diver.
As a late zoomer, I agree with you 100%. Whilst it's reasonable to advise that people take precautions and know the risks, there's way too many people that are on the side of "Oooo uh, shouldn't have taken nudes!". There are way too many crimes that are so common nowadays that the victim just gets flippantly blamed for not looking out for themselves better.
Trying to give a more relatable example for the incels, how would you feel if you'd got a nice hefty bikelock, locked your bike up against a bike stand, and you come back an hour later to find that someone's picked and stolen it? You knew the risks of leaving a bike unattended, you took what you thought were good enough precautions and it still got stolen. Is it your fault? Should you have just walked? Why did you even leave the house?
Yeah my nudes are completely accessible to people with a fetlife account and I'm fine with that.
... You know, reading some of the replies and attitudes here towards the nudes part, the phrase "It's her fault for dressing so provocatively" comes to mind.
Given the state of privacy we have and how companies treat security, I'd rather compare it to going shopping while leaving the door of your house wide open. Yes, if something gets stolen, the thieve is still the criminal. It is still not a great idea. I'd say no nudes or do it with an analogue camera and develop the photos yourself. I'd also say, this rule is unisex.
Yeah, but the correct response to that is "okay, you should have checked that the door was locked before you headed off" rather than "well, you should never leave your house because the lockpicking lawyer can unlock doors in seconds".
It's a massive overcorrection imo to say that because there's a chance they might get leaked then it's her "fault" for doing it in the first place.
It's also misogynistic as hell to blame a woman because she trusted a man who betrayed that trust.
Given the state of privacy we have and how companies treat security, I’d rather compare it to going shopping while leaving the door of your house wide open.
He literally says "never take any selfies" in the comic. 'Going shopping and leaving your door open' doesn't make any sense in this context. What if you take a selfie, and (safely, however that would be) give it to your partner.
Five years later you break up and they post it online. How is that 'leaving the door to your house open' exactly?
What about making an analog video with a partner, again you break up later, and it's put online. Is that 'leaving the door to your house open'?
Or are you agreeing with the comic and saying women (or anyone really) should never ever take pictures/videos/etc of themselves naked/otherwise compromised, because the image/etc could go online?
Lemmites love going against the grain because they think it's a personality.
Just taking nudes is not really your fault. If you know how to safely store them.
You get fault Points for:
- storing them unencrypted
- storing them in unsafe places (online, in a publicly-available Folder on your Computer)
- sending them to other people
- sending them via unencrypted means
- sending them via a avenue that makes backups
The Reason we recommend not taking nudes isn't because it is your fault if you do, it's because we know most people are tech-illiterate and don't know how to safely handle dangerous/compromising Material.
The first point in the comic is certainly valid, giving the technical literacy of many people.
If you're taking nudes for yourself and not to share... I think you're in an extreme minority. People take nudes to share. And:
- People suck. That person you're in love with now might UN's to being the person who burns your clothes when you break up with them.
- Information wants to be free. This is what a lot of your points touch on, but the fact is, several companies have access to your data, and making digital copies is so trivial it's often automatic.
- Digital information is forever. Because of (2), once you take a nude, it's harder to get rid of it than preserve it.
- If you share it once, it's not utterly out of your control. It might be out of the control of the person you share it with; at the very least, if you text it, some techs at your service provider are going to make copies. For gods sake, use E2E chat, people. Another point you raised about digital hygiene.
Yeah, the first panel is entirely justified. It's like whining about how you shouldn't have to lock your car doors when you park downtown.
This stuff depends on context.
If it's the first time someone is told this, sure. If someone is asking not to be constantly harassed for having done this once, then that person is right. Once they've been told once, it's plenty if education is the goal. If the person knows to tell you not to tell them that, they've been told once. If someone is asking that the guy who leaked the nudes be acted against, then that person is right. If someone is excusing shitting behavior because the victim should have protected themselves better, they are blaming the victim, shame on them.
Holy victim shaming Batman.
When we talk about cybersecurity or theft in general, it's always your fault if you leave the door unlocked.
The rule about noods isn't just a rule for half our population. The victim-shaming in the next panel really launders the issue, though. I'm left now wondering whether the writer intentionally equated exhibitionism with just trying to walk home, and what that means for the thesis.
The rules are not, but the victims are overwhelmingly female. Being intentionally obtuse about that doesn’t discredit their argument.
yeah, if i'm in a raccoon of self righteousness for telling people your nude selfies trend toward 100% at some point being seen by people you didn't intend to see them, then I guess I'm washing my food in a stream.
I live in a cocoon too, but it's more like one of self doubt.
If you don't want your nude selfies to leak you should store them locally and encrypt them. Then only send them through half decent methods.
... And then the other party uploads then to OneDrive because they didn't realise it's turned on by default.
Then only send them through half decent methods.
Oh so not through Facebook?
The only sure way to not have your nude pictures “leak” is to not have nude pictures. It’s that simple. Any further discussion is regarding some other point.
Sure, but if you're doing it in a smart way, its effectively impossible for them to be leaked. So, you can still have them without worrying.
Why is this a video?
Don't rush his metamorphosis, he'll hatch from that cocoon eventually...
This is the second post I've seen in two days where people come out of the woodwork to victim blame women specifically. Hey Lemmy, what's going on?
I think you're confusing two things. The fact that yeah taking and especially sending nudes puts you at risk vs assigning blame. A lot of people seem to think saying the first means you're doing the second for some reason.
First advice seems like a fairly sensible one
“And just tell men ‘no’! I know you have it in you! Just be brave!”
“I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space”
–Hamlet
The two examples are totally different things. I don't get it.
Everyone stating that the first panel is a unisex rule has really not given it much thought.
Men are not punished for being sexual beings in our society nearly as harshly or frequently as women. A man is not likely to be branded a "slut" for the fact that their naked body exists and was allowed to be photographed.
Yes, it could cause men harm to steal and leak their naked photos, especially if it's wielded as a weapon in a revenge porn scenario.
But no, men do not have an equal impact on them as women do in the case of having their nudes stolen and leaked.
And I am just going to venture a guess to say that the rule in the first panel has been said to or about women significantly more often than it has to men. I've only ever heard it said about female celebrities in the news.
I say this as a gay man who has tons of nude selfies and sex videos dating back 20 years or so. Every gay man I know has nudes. It's an expected part of gay dating and hook up culture to have photos like that to share. If they were just leaked to some website I would most likely not be impacted at all in any way, even if friends found them.
That's just not the case for most women.
HAHAHAHA just dont buy an iPhone you idiot! Hahaha I'm so smort!
The iPhone argument is genuinely valid though. If you find Apple's business practices to be morally evil, the FairPhone is right there. There is nothing most people need an iPhone for that they couldn't get from the FairPhone for a similar price.
The iphone argument in itself yes but it keeps us from solving the overarching issue. Manipulation works. 800 billion usd says so (ad revenue worldwide) and peeps need to understand that. Its not only 100% or 0% individual responsiblity. You can act responsible, yet be manipulated. This needs to be outlawed. Example: Happy people drinking alcohol. Why do you think smoking ads were stopped? because they didnt work?
