Technology @lemmy.ml AlmightySnoo 🐢🇮🇱🇺🇦 @lemmy.world 1y ago

Reddit is in danger of a death spiral

www.zdnet.com Reddit is in danger of a death spiral

Can Reddit survive as its volunteer workforce close down subreddits and walk away from the site in protest at the management's new policies?

Huffman has said, "We are not in the business of giving that [Reddit's content] away for free." That stance makes sense. But it also ignores the reality that all of Reddit's content has been given to it for free by its millions of users. Further, it leaves aside the fact that the content has been orchestrated by its thousands of volunteer moderators.

touché

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It's literally not "Reddit's content". Says so in the user agreement:

You retain any ownership rights you have in Your Content, but you grant Reddit the following license to use that Content [...]

Huffman should be careful calling it "Reddit's content" — by claiming ownership, he's arguably taking on liability.
- The [stuff in brackets] is editorial. That's when they add on their own reference to something said elsewhere.
  
  In this case, huffpig didn't actually say content. He said data.
  
  It's actually worse, because it dehumanizes everyone on reddit, via that the data is our only value to him.
  
  So, fuck huffpig
  
  I think the word "data" also supports the theory that this is actually about training data for LLMs rather than ad revenue. If it was actually about 3rd party apps, then why not just require all apps to feed the ads? But according to the Apollo developer, there wasn't even a way to fetch the ads through the API.
  
  I think spez saw what OpenAI/Microsoft were accomplishing using parsed data and got dollar signs in his eyes. The irony is that OpenAI probably already ripped every comment off Reddit up until now, and don't really need more going forward.
  
  I mean it's also true that they could just have read the web pages, but the API actually cost reddit less than rendering the full web page for all the data.
  
  If it was actually about AI they would have solved the issue quickly by offering different prices for 3rd party apps. The fact that they aren't doing that clearly shows that they want to kill apps.
- By that logic I guess he will have to start paying redditors for their content.
  
  I mean, it's only fair.
- Why not post the whole sub-section:
  5. Your Content
  The Services may contain information, text, links, graphics, photos, videos, audio, streams, or other materials (“Content”), including Content created with or submitted to the Services by you or through your Account (“Your Content”). We take no responsibility for and we do not expressly or implicitly endorse, support, or guarantee the completeness, truthfulness, accuracy, or reliability of any of Your Content.
  
  By submitting Your Content to the Services, you represent and warrant that you have all rights, power, and authority necessary to grant the rights to Your Content contained within these Terms. Because you alone are responsible for Your Content, you may expose yourself to liability if you post or share Content without all necessary rights.
  
  You retain any ownership rights you have in Your Content, but you grant Reddit the following license to use that Content:
  
  When Your Content is created with or submitted to the Services, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, transferable, and sublicensable license to use, copy, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works of, distribute, store, perform, and display Your Content and any name, username, voice, or likeness provided in connection with Your Content in all media formats and channels now known or later developed anywhere in the world. This license includes the right for us to make Your Content available for syndication, broadcast, distribution, or publication by other companies, organizations, or individuals who partner with Reddit. You also agree that we may remove metadata associated with Your Content, and you irrevocably waive any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your Content.
  
  Any ideas, suggestions, and feedback about Reddit or our Services that you provide to us are entirely voluntary, and you agree that Reddit may use such ideas, suggestions, and feedback without compensation or obligation to you.
  
  Although we have no obligation to screen, edit, or monitor Your Content, we may, in our sole discretion, delete or remove Your Content at any time and for any reason, including for violating these Terms, violating our Content Policy, or if you otherwise create or are likely to create liability for us.
  
  I didn't post it all because (1) it's long and most of it isn't directly pertinent, and (2) this is the Web, we have hyperlinks. :)

82 comments