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5 family members found dead in Ohio home in apparent quadruple murder-suicide

www.nbcnews.com 5 family members found dead in Ohio home in apparent quadruple murder-suicide

The Uniontown Police Department is calling the incident a "domestic dispute that turned deadly."

5 family members found dead in Ohio home in apparent quadruple murder-suicide

Five family members, including three kids, were found dead in an Ohio home Thursday evening in what police are calling a "domestic dispute that turned deadly," according to a news release.

The incident is being investigated as a quadruple murder-suicide, police said.

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  • having a gun in your home increases your chance of dying from guns. i cannot comprehend how people still think its a good idea to keep them.

    • “To defend against intruders!” they’ll enthusiastically exclaim, thinking it makes them some badass… except it significantly increases the likelihood you will, in your adrenaline-fueled and panicked response, accidentally shoot yourself or another family member (or beloved pet) while mistaking them for an intruder— not to mention all of the other statistically higher chances of half a dozen other gun-related tragedies happening simply because a gun is present in the home.

      “But we keep it locked up!” These people will claim. Great, but that only lowers the danger somewhat; it doesn’t eliminate it. Kids are very clever. They can find keys. They have intimate knowledge of you and can guess combinations. They can get access to those locked-up guns if they’re determined, and kids are determined. And a locked-up gun isn’t much use when an intruder breaks into your home and you have mere seconds to fumble around in the dark with a key or combination amidst that adrenaline-fueled panic, half-awake, trying to unlock the lock-box and load the gun while trying not to accidentally shoot yourself or a loved one.

      And no matter how much time you spend at the shooting range, shooting at a well-lit, stationary, paper target, that won’t prepare you for shooting at a moving, human target in the dark. When faced with the prospect of shooting a living person, many people will freeze, and in that moment, an intruder who may have had no intention of using their weapon may suddenly decide that they now have no choice and pull the trigger. And they very likely have more experience than you.

      A knife or a baseball bat is far more effective in a close-quarters confrontation, not to mention far more survivable should the target be a mistaken one. You’re no badass. Just call 911 and try to keep your family out of danger. You don’t have the years of training that the professionals do. Don’t risk the lives of yourself and your family just because you fear losing control.

    • One of the biggest studies to date tracked nearly 600,000 Californians and found that your odds of being killed by firearm are 8 in 100,000 and increase to 12 in 100,000 if you keep a gun in your house (source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/07/guns-handguns-safety-homicide-killing-study). That means that keeping a gun in your house increases your chances for dying to gunshot by 4 in 100,000 chances.

      The average Californian dies from automobile accidents at a rate of 9.1 in 100,000. That's more than double the death rate that keeping a gun in your house contributes. (Source: https://www.eastonlawoffices.com/blog/odds-of-dying-in-a-car-crash-in-california/#:~:text=According to available data from,about 9.1 per 100%2C000 people. )

      So you can't understand why people still keep guns? It's because they don't perceive it as a significant threat. And statistically, it isn't. At least not as big a threat as many other common behaviors that are accepted as normal.

      The takeaway is that if you are paranoid about dying from statistically small things, then ceasing doing a lot of other activities (like driving) is going to be statistically more impactful than not having a gun in your house.

      • You're saying there's a small danger to keeping a gun in your house, what's the benefit? Shouldn't we also look at how many people don't get murdered because they have a gun in their house?

        • It is the same benefit as carrying insurance (auto insurance, home insurance, medical insurance, etc). Most people pay into insurance and never use it, and you hope you never have to use it, so you might ask them why they need it and why they keep paying into it. The answer is that you have insurance because if you need it, and you don't have it, it's already too late to get it, and your life can be ruined.

          Shouldn't we also look at how many people don't get murdered because they have a gun in their house

          There was enough info published in my original citation to derive that.

    • Owning a car increases your chance of dying in a car accident too. Owning a table saw increases your chance of losing a finger. Owning a boat increases your chance of drowning. Etc.

      Do I think people should be walking around with military-grade weapons? No. Do I think people should be allowed a shotgun to hunt with or whatever? Sure. Do I think there should be background checks and all that to help make sure they're used in a responsible manner? Hell yes. Do I wish guns had never been invented? Yes.

      But come on. This guy apparently went room to room in his house and systematically murdered everyone in it. It wasn't an accident, which is what generally drives the statistic you mentioned. Who knows what was going through his mind at the time. But I'm guessing that, while the gun probably made the act easier, the gun wasn't the enabler nor catalyst here. Given what happened, I'm guessing he would have found another tool to use if he had no gun on hand. I'm not going to be morbid and name all the things within reach at the average house you could use to murder a 9 year old, but it's a lot of things.

      • You’ve made a sound argument against owning cars and table saws and boats, not one in favor of owning guns or that they’re safe to have in the home, especially in the face of overwhelming evidence.

        And what you think is irrelevant; the facts speak for themselves. All you’re saying is that you’re choosing to ignore the facts, ignore reality, because you think you somehow know better. And regardless of your attempts at rationalization, it doesn’t take much to figure out that, without a gun in the home, this person would have found it far more difficult to so quickly and instantly murder his whole family and then himself, and family members would have had a much higher chance of survival and/or escape.

        Even faced with the prospect of the much more difficult task of killing his whole family by other means would have greatly reduced the likelihood of him following through with his plan at all. With a gun, it’s all so easy. Using some other means makes it more difficult a task and is enough to give a person pause— often just enough to change a mind, to create an opportunity to seek help, etc.

        But you’re not even willing to consider any of that. Because of boats and cars and table saws…

        BTW, getting a license to drive a car/boat is much more difficult in most states than getting a gun license. And I don’t know of any stories of families being mass-murdered or schools or nightclubs having everyone inside them being slaughtered by table saws.

      • Chris watts (? Not 100% on the name) killed a pregnant adult and two children with his bare hands I believe. I do believe having a gun to hand makes killing quicker and easier than another weapon, but ultimately once someone snaps to this extent, there’s little that will stop them.

        • Cherry-picking single, isolated incident does not change mountains upon mountains and decades, upon decades of statistical data that proves you wrong. This one man may have been capable of killing a person with his bare hands, but that doesn’t change the fact that literally anyone is capable of killing another person (and themselves) instantly with a gun. 

          I always find it, particularly strange when someone claims to know the mind of someone who has “snapped to this extent“both claiming to know what they think, while simultaneously, claiming that you can’t know what they might do. 

          The fact is, you can’t claim to know what another person thinks. But the statistical data shows that when taking a gun out of the situation, it’s far far far less likely that the murderous act would be carried through simply because it’s no longer as easy. 

          • No, I agree. I’m British so pretty anti gun. I just thought the guy I was replying to had a point and honestly I don’t think I’ve ever heard a reasonable point defending guns. But you’re right, it was just one recent-ish example that sprung to mind. It doesn’t change the fact that millions of Americans would be safer if you adopted gun laws like the UK, Oz or other similar countries.

            • I will gladly acknowledge that there are outliers that don’t fit the pattern. That literally always happens with any form of data analysis. It does not, however, change the facts of the matter that having a gun in your home dramatically increases the likelihood that someone in the home will be injured by or killed by that gun. 

              One common misunderstanding in the argument against guns in the home and other similar arguments as such is that the goal is to eliminate gun violence altogether. That’s not really possible in this context. The goal, of course, is to dramatically reduce the incidence of gun violence. Opponents to gun control like to treat the argument as though eliminating gun violence altogether is impossible, therefore, we shouldn’t even bother trying. Because of this false narrative, their arguments will always be empty. Not to mention that they always ignore the overwhelming evidence.

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