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It's 2025. America. You see these men on the street.
If you assume they are going to rob a bank dial 911.
If you assume they are going to lynch someone dial 911.
If you assume they are going to kidnap someone dial 911.
If you assume they are law enforcement then get your eyes checked. They aren't wearing any identifying uniform, no insignia, no badges.
If you assume they are impersonating law enforcement then dial 911 and get your eyes checked.
Definitely don’t call 911. That just gives them more backup. They look like terrorists in the streets. It’s actually illegal here to wear a mask over your face while demonstrating or armed so they are under stand your ground territory
If someone wearing a balaclava and civilian clothes grabs you, I'm pretty sure it's reasonable to stab them.
You can only use proportional force to defend yourself under stand your ground laws. If you stab someone that is only using their body parts then you go to jail. Will a jury convict? It will take a year or two to find out.
Multiple people is significantly more force than even a knife.
Proportional force means the force must be proportional to the threat, not to the force the other person is using. If someone threatens death with their hands, you can use deadly force to defend against a deadly threat.
One would be reasonable in concluding that masked people trying to force you or someone else into a van is an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm or sexual assault.
You can't use deadly force to defend against harassment, or theft because that's disproportionate.
I'm not saying it's legal. I'm saying if someone wearing a balaclava tries to force me into an unmarked van, they're getting stabbed.
Then you have evaluated the situation and have made an informed decision about the options.
That's not true in all states. In Florida, if you feel genuinely threatened, you can respond with deadly force, no matter what the other guy is threatening you with.
Well the thing is there are more than 1 of them. Would it not be proportional to stab them if you get ganged on by 4 to 5 of them?
IANAL
Easy there, boss. That depends heavily on what state you're in. And the ones that have "stand your ground" and "castle doctrine" are usually the ones where local police are openly coordinating with ICE.
If you stand your ground you still go to jail. Even if you are released you still got more inconvenienced than them.
As a white person I'm at minimal risk from them. But in order to stand your ground for another person they must have a legal right to be where they are. And if they are, in fact, not legally here, then bad things happen to you.
If you don't, it's possible you're going to a concentration camp. Think I rather get tried by a jury of my peers.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
And what if they take your ID, claim you aren't a citizen so you don't get due process and then they deport you to a foreign prison?
Yo they have discussed suspending habeus corpus.
The only black bag I'm going in is a body bag.
Discussed? My dude it's already been happening for months.