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Kamala was a neoliberal, who would improve things incrementally, running against a fascist. We all knew she wasn't an ideal candidate and told people that. I know I did. We know the Democrats are neoliberals, a right leaning political position. We needed to delay fascism four more years to get a progressive or socialist candidate in the next Democratic primary. We failed.
It's over. We lost the election. You were had. I'm sorry that happened. It can happen to anyone.
Take a break, when you feel better, come back. People will be organizing to fight back against fascists. This time, please join them instead of arguing against them. Saying 'both sides' isn't helping.
You were had.
It's people like you that just prove my point.
I voted for Harris. I wasn't "had."
We needed to delay fascism four more years to get a progressive or socialist candidate in the next Democratic primary.
Yeah, I'm fucking tired of hearing this. Y'know what could've delayed fascism and turned out the vote? Any measurable progress for the average American over the last four years.
You're so oblivious to it, and you act like you're the only one who actually gets it. You think Biden's mental acuity dropped overnight in July?
The DNC was well aware of his declining mental health well before that, well before the primaries. And they hid it, and actively chose to hide it from the country, all while acting like all was completely fine. Then they waited for the debate, saw it went disastrously, and then decided it'd be best to run another candidate. Except, le gasp, there is not enough time to run a full primary! Oh no! What do we do?!
Eh, we'll just run the VP, and we'll run her on a centrist platform to try and win over Republicans. Yeah, yeah... That'll do it.
Where was Bernie in that discussion? Or better yet, how did it go trying to get Bernie as the candidate in 2016? I distinctly remember the DNC acting completely above board the entire time, listening to their constituents, and running a progressive campaign tha-
Oh, wait, no, that's all a lie. Historically, factually, it was a lie. The DNC has made it clear they will not, ever, support a progressive candidate. They showed us that in 2016, they showed us in 2020, and even when faced with fucking fascism, they refused to run a progressive platform in 2024.
This time, please join them instead of arguing against them. Saying 'both sides' isn't helping.
Oh go fuck yourself. Playing the "Just four more years of centrism, we promise for realz this time, 100%" is not helping.
Speaking to people on here like they're some misguided child who spilled a glass of milk is "not helping."
Trying to distance the Democrats from the conservative party they are and continue to show themselves to be "isn't helping."
Fuck you.
We're on the same team. We try get to the Democrats to win because as progressives and socialists we are outside the Overton Window in the US. Getting the Democrats to win and move to the left is the strategy minority groups have been doing for decades. Disinformation campaigns to make people lose sight of that fundamental strategy is part of how Harris lost. A lot of younger people didn't know better and fell for it.
Israel's genocide in Gaza has been Gen Z's moral injury. Bad actors exploited that to give fascists the win. And a lot of people fell for it.
No one fell for anything, the Democrats are a shitty party who won't get with the times, no one was brainwashed, you just sound sad and delusional.
Is it true or not that Biden has continued support to Israel, unmitigated and even sidestepping Congress, despite vocal outcries from his constituents? Is it true or not that Harris basically followed Biden's policy regarding Palestine despite vocal opposition from within her own party?
A lot of younger people didn't know better and fell for it.
THERE IT IS!! Can't just blame all voters, no no, now we've got to blame young voters specifically for the Democrats failing to distance themselves from a genocide, and running an uninspiring campaign for a large part of their voting populace they completely discounted.
God, I didn't think it'd be a post-election day discussion without the young people being blamed for everything.
Israel's genocide in Gaza has been Gen Z's moral injury.
Israel's genocide in Gaza was the softest ball the Democrats could've been served, and they whiffed on it repeatedly. A proxy state humiliated us and made us their bitch on the world stage, and the Democrats still wouldn't stop cradling Netanyahu's balls for him.
And it's disgusting that politicians put the American people in the situation of having to choose whether or not to support a genocide, and worse, to what degree they support one.
Bad actors exploited that to give fascists the win. And a lot of people fell for it.
I didn't realize bad actors pointed out the absurdity of the Democrat campaign (not allowing primaries because Biden wouldn't step down and his staff hid his failing mental faculties, running on a centrist platform despite early progressive motivation, reversing her fracking policy, not supporting M4A, basically being Biden 2.0).
I also didn't realize bad actors chose to try and court the vote of people who would never support them (Republicans) while making no effort to win over the more progressive part of the party because 🤷♀️. That's the real "fell for it": the Democrats really thought "wE'rE nOt FaScIsT" was going to be good enough for another election. They really thought getting Walz to play on Twitch was more important and enticing then telling Americans they would get progressive policies.
But you're right, let's keep blaming the voters fed up with the system, and especially being fed up with, "No no, for realz, this time for realz we promise we'll do the things we promised the last 4 times, really for real."
Maybe the Democrats should've taken their voters seriously, and their wants seriously, at any point in the last few decades. But no, we get centrist, status quo bullshit, and if we demand our candidates move left, we get chucklefucks like you telling us we need to meet them in the very middle, and then we can start asking them to move our way. Bullshit, the Democrats can move left, or they can cease to exist, we keep trying it their way, and nothing is getting done.
Hope it was worth losing to fascism, DNC, you and your party elite sure do keep showing us you know best. 👍
We lost to fascism. This is the useless rhetoric that lost us the election. If we wait for the perfect candidate we will never see any progress in this country again. We got to this point with the rights we have because people voted for the furthest left option they could.
You have fallen for every fallacy that was thrown at you this election. As long as you care more about keeping your hands clean than people you will be stuck this way. Find someone you can trust irl. Anyone who has something to lose from this christo-fascist takeover will tell you got it wrong. Rejecting the Democrats feels good to you, but it has done nothing but harm the causes you claim to care about.
We knew the Democrats were neoliberals. The assignment was to prevent the christo-fascist takeover. People who didn't vote for Harris or spread this rhetoric failed the assignment. Trump may get two more Supreme Court picks and Israel will be allowed to continue their genocide of Palestinians indefinitely.
The stakes could not have been higher this election. At no point does the Democrats being neoliberals who are bad on issues compel us to be ineffectual. We got bogged down by rhetoric that got in the way of what we as the left needed to win, record voter turnout.
Everything in your post boils down to the Democrats didn't promise me everything I wanted so it's the Democrat's fault. This is a useless mindset that helps no one. For everyone's sake, ditch it.
A politicians job during a campaign is to convince people they are worth electing.
Harris lost the electoral college and the popular vote. Harris failed to convince a majority of the electorate that she was worth voting for. That's it, that's the whole story: she failed to win over voters, and failed to rally support from her own party.
She became Biden 2.0 as her campaign went on, and people didn't want four more years of Biden. She showed no meaningful difference between the current administration and her own should she win.
She lost Michigan by less than 100,000 votes. More than 100,000 people protest voted over Palestine during the primaries there. Harris took that information, and doubled down on Biden's policy, ignoring her constituents. The DNC welcomed numerous Republican officials to speak at the DNC, the same officials who helped Trump during his first presidency, they were welcomed with open arms. But no Palestinian Democrats, including those put forward by the Uncommitted Protest Vote Movement, were given time to speak at the DNC.
And as her campaign went on, she proved that was more concerned with trying to win over Republicans (like Hillary failed to do in 2016, and Biden failed to do in 2020) than she was trying to rally support from her own undecided voters and non-voters. Less than 40% of eligible voters vote, so her strategy was completely write off the 60% that could he won over, and focus on trying to win conservatives, which required more Centrist policies, which just alienates progressive Democrats...
Anyway, let's see, oh yeah: 94% of registered Republicans voted for Republicans in 2024, the exact same amount as 2020.
No one was duped, you sound weird and strange talking the way you do. It's off-putting and makes me want to actively work against Democracy, because you're doing exactly what I've been describing: dismissing everything I have to say while condescendingly speaking to me like I'm some misguided child.
You need grow up and accept that the Democrats fucked up, backed the wrong strategies, and were significantly more unpopular than they thought they were.
It is sad how quickly and easily you've fallen for the fallacy that it's not party leadership, but the voters they're supposed to represent and reflect that are the reason why Democrats can't fucking win. Absolutely delusional.
A politicians job during a campaign is to convince people they are worth electing.
Which is why American politicians stay in the American Overton window. Which is on the right side of the political spectrum. The way we made progress is by voting for the party that was the furthest to the left.
She became Biden 2.0 as her campaign went on,
DNC consultants, including Hillary Clinton, took over Harris' campaign after the DNC and ran it into the ground. That's not permission to give fascists a free pass. We are not Democrats. We don't live or die based on what Democrat politicians do. We find a way to make their campaign work because everyone's lives depend on it. There's too much at stake to just throw up our hands and say both sides. Democracy is not we the Democrats, it's We the People.
Anyway, let’s see, oh yeah: 94% of registered Republicans voted for Republicans in 2024, the exact same amount as 2020.
Yes, Republicans demonstrating they understand how democracy works as they dismantle it.
No one was duped, you sound weird and strange talking the way you do. It’s off-putting and makes me want to actively work against Democracy, because you’re doing exactly what I’ve been describing: dismissing everything I have to say while condescendingly speaking to me like I’m some misguided child.
This is you. Duped. Sounding weird and strange. Actively working against democracy because you didn't get what you wanted. It is an incredibly childlike temper tantrum.
The options were Biden or Harris or fascism. Through our collective failure we have chosen fascism. As adults, it's our job to take responsibility for what We the People had control over, which was our votes. Now if we fail to organize we will likely end up in death camps.
You've given up your agency the second you had someone to blame your misfortune on. I recommend you reconsider. There is again to much at stake to continue blame a party that is now going to prison. If we fail, we will again have no one to blame but ourselves.
There is again to much at stake to continue blame a party that is now going to prison.
And they have no one to blame but themselves.
I like how you refuse to listen and double down on this "Democracy too important, must vote blue no matter who" nonsense that, spoiler alert, clearly wasn't enough to drive Americans to the polls.
That's a failure on the Democrats, not the voters, and you're the childish one trying to blame the passengers of a car wreck instead of the ones who were driving.
I'm sorry speaking rationally and placing the blame where it belongs, at the feet of those who campaigned, sounds strange and delusional.
Tell me, how many people have you convinced to keep supporting Harris/the Dems with this weird, hippie, grand wisened elder schtick you're trying to make sound so thought provoking.
The options were Biden or Harris or fascism.
I didn't realize that in those options, Harris had to mirror every unpopular policy decision made by Biden over the last four years. She chose to.
The DNC chose to run unpopular policies, chose to not listen to their voters who wanted their concerns heard and responded to (not dismissed), they chose to keep Biden in the primaries well past his ability to govern/campaign effectively.
They chose all of this, these were their decisions. Decisions that convinced 14 million Democrats that voted in 2020 to stay home because they don't feel represented.
But no no, you're right, Democracy was too important for the Democrats to alter their message, or campaign on different policies, no no, you're absolutely fucking right, that is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING UNTHINKABLE TO EXPECT OF A POLITICAL CANDIDATE.
No, you're fucking right, the more I think about it, why do we even fucking vote, the Democrats know better than me anyway, a person living as an actual average American, hurting miserably under the current system.
You're right, you're a million billion percent right, guess I'll go turn myself in because I cost the Democrats the election by criticizing them. We can't expect change of our politicians, you're right, ludicrous idea.
I'll go check myself into a mental institution, that seems fitting since I seem to have this crazy thought that fucking adults can change their opinions to better align with those they're supposed to represent.
You're right, from now on, I'll just vote blue, and I'll threaten anyone who criticizes them in any way to make sure they understand that this isn't a joke, the Democrats don't have to fucking do anything, it's all on us voters, and I don't want to cause fascism again!! No no, I, the fucking average American who doesn't have a national platform or millions of campaign contributions to use to spread my message, myself and every other worthless plebian who forgot their place at the feet of the Democratic elite, should have known better.
You are a fucking joke, dude, let me know when the Democrats decide they actually want to represent the will of the American people.
The Democrats aren't going to become the party you think you deserve. But they are the party we can use to achieve our goals. If we fail to leverage them effectively that's on us. Spreading this propaganda is self-defeating. It's an exercise in shooting yourself in the foot. The Democratic Party is what we have to move the needle to the left. If we insist on casting them in the most unfavorable light possible to everyone, we shouldn't be surprised when no one wants to vote for them and they lose. Your time would be better spent targeting the Republicans with this stuff considering they are the people who want to kill us.
Obviously the Democrats would do better if they adopted a populist message. We can't control the Democratic Party. But we can influence the rhetoric around how people view their vote. If we make the Democrats look like fascists who must be protested out of a moral duty, then we've done the Republicans a favor. If we point out the Democratic Party are a useful way to advance progressive and socialist causes over time then we've done leftists a favor. Let's do the latter.
Of course we'll see what happens next year with this. Seems like the party could die if it's leadership are all arrested. If it doesn't, let's use the Democrats to our advantage. edit: typo
If we insist on casting them in the most unfavorable light possible to everyone, we shouldn't be surprised when no one wants to vote for them and they lose. Your time would be better spent targeting the Republicans with this stuff considering they are the people who want to kill us.
They cast themselves in unfavorable light, no one forced them to behave the way they have this entire campaign, or how they've behaved towards their own supporters.
They lose, and no one votes for them, because they don't show the American populace that they'll get anything done, and they don't campaign on anything beyond the status quo.
The Democrats are going to continue to lose until they acknowledge that people would rather the system burn than be forced to hold their nose and get nothing for another 2+ years. 14 million fewer Democrats voted this year than they did in 2020, that is not a failing of the electorate, it's a failure of the party.
Voting is a two way street. You've said repeatedly that we can't have the candidate we feel we deserve, or we can't have progressive candidates, or that we can't have Palestine because XYZ, and we can't expand the Supreme Court because XYZ.
Ok, so then what are the electorate getting? We're not asking for everything, I've never once said they have to run a candidate who supports every single progressive policy, but we can have something something progressive to believe in? Instead of "stfu and vote for us and maybe we'll move a little in four years if we feel like it."
The DNC can't have their cake and eat it too. You can't ignore a large portion of the voting population but still expect them to give a fuck about you. I guarantee you Harris would have at least had a better shot if she had a few progressive policies that differed enough from Biden and actually gave Americans hope.
Instead, they just leaned back on "bUt FaScIsM," dug their heads in the sand to any compromise within the party, and then fucks like you come out blaming the electorate for "not understanding the gravity of the situation."
Cool, the political party with millions of dollars in record breaking campaign fundraising, multiple national figures with national audiences to convey their message, and multiple A-list celebrity endorsements, they don't have to understand the severity of the situation and compromise, no no, it's us, the electorate, who are to blame, and who should've, how does Lemmy keep putting it, "stfu, grow up, and vote."
Real winning slogan y'all adopted.
Obviously the Democrats would do better if they adopted a populist message.
Then why won't they? Not can't, not shouldn't, why won't they? We're not asking for fucking gold limousines for every American, we want healthcare, livable wages, and better social services.
Why is it so unreasonable for the Democratic party to consider any of these?
I want you to answer that. I want you to explain to me why it is unreasonable for a political party losing to fascism to change their party platform. Not "tHe MoVeMeNt mUsT cOmE fRoM wItHiN," I want you to explain to me why a group of grown ass adults, whose sole job is to represent their constituents, can't grow the fuck up and adopt any meaningful platform or policy that will win them elections.
If we make the Democrats look like fascists who must be protested out of a moral duty, then we've done the Republicans a favor.
They did that themselves by refusing to distance themselves from Palestine, as I have repeatedly stated, and that they made very clear to the Arab/Muslim voters multiple times in public.
Choosing not to participate in a system you don't feel represented in isn't a protest, it's aligning your vote with who best represents you and your interests. If they vote for no one, then neither candidate could successfully convince them they were worth voting for.
And continuing to act like apathetic voters are just naive and speaking to them the way you do, why would they want to support your movement? "Your feelings are wrong, and you did wrong, but I forgive you because I believe I'm morally superior for treating the Democratic party as a cult."
Give them something to hope for, and they'll probably hope again. That's the Democrats first priority, and this status quo bullshit isn't gonna cut it.
If it doesn't, let's use the Democrats to our advantage.
I don't expect them to change or learn a damn thing. It sure sounds like a lot less effort for them to shift right than it is for them to move left. And seeing as how they're too lazy to come up with a better strategy than the one they keep losing on, I'm just going to assume they'll continue to move right.
I hope not, I hope this scares them shitless so they can understand what the average American goes through on a daily fucking basis while they gamble with our lives on whims of fucking hubris. I hope some of them lose everything material in their lives, like many of their constituents are about to thanks to their arrogance and hubris.
Let's see some of these silver spoon Liberal Elite who fucking know best live on $7.25/hr with no benefits, six roommates, and the fucked up society they've gleefully left us to rot in until we're needed every election year. Maybe when they actually suffer consequences for once, they'll give a shit what Joe Smith nobody has to say about their foreign policy, or their complete lack of cohesion or progress.
Hope their lives were worth gambling on the status quo.
It's because the Overton window is shifted to the right in the US.
If the Democrats were a better tool, that would be great. They're neoliberals, they don't listen to anyone. Socialists have been able to get into their primaries. One day we might even get one of them elected as the nominee. But we need to keep our democracy long enough to do that. And there's a good chance we just screwed that up.
Harris called for a ceasefire multiple times and promised to do everything in her power to end the war in Gaza. Trump said Israel needed to finish the job. Harris was the correct choice to help the Palestinians.
I saw you were stuck parroting propaganda and still are, so I decide to try to reach you. Me pointing this out to you has clearly been upsetting. Who ever got you hooked on this wanted to debilitate you so you would harm your own interests and the causes that you care about. Hopefully you've been able to tell that I don't think particularly highly of the Democrats. I see how they are useful and point that out to people. You seem unable to stop trying to sink Harris' campaign. She lost. It's done. If we're lucky we will still have a two party system. In the event Democrats still exist in some capacity, consider using them to advance your goals, as opposed to spread propaganda about the Democrats at the expense of your goals.