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Why is society so afraid of people purposefully altering their mental state? (In terms of cannabis, psychedelics, anything "mind-expanding.)
And even this isn't something that I've never seen asked, but aside from like Terence McKenna, I don't really know anyone who's interested in it, or even accept the question.
Edit this thread is a case in point. Not one single explanation, just people absolutely terrified out of their minds, parroting bad propaganda and even worse rhetoric. "I don't want my surgeon tripping when he's operating on me." And I don't want my surgeon drunk, and alcohol is legal, and I've never had the issue, because surgeons don't come to work drunk.
Genuinely, I'm tired of answering these "arguments" and no-one will accept how afraid they are, even when not a single soul can explain why.
because people in those states can act unpredictably and are thus unreliable. you don't want your surgeon to be tripping balls.
Pffftt these childish and stupid "arguments."
Your surgeon isn't drunk at work now, why would they be any less responsible with, say, LSD?
Only people who've never used drugs think this way, that once you do any illegal drug, you're instantly hooked, can't stop, 247 high and sucking cock for crack.
When you look at any science on the matter, those are simply asinine ideas which aren't supported by any of the evidence we have. Alcohol is clearly the most dangerous drug (well, arguably strong opiates, but it defined how you define dangerous or harmful, but Here's a handy ranking with a chart, comparing the relative harms of drugs.
We've got decades of data to show psychedelics aren't addictive, people only use them a few times a year when they're "actively" using them, they're far safer than alcohol, and have loads of benefits.
Cannabis is also extremely safe, and even when now it's at the point they're starting to admit the prohibition doesn't work, they're still pushing basically sixties propaganda like reefer madness.
We allow people to get wasted on booze. We allow people to beat other people up, as long as its voluntary. There's literally a sport (face slapping) where the object is to just hit the other person so hard you give them a concussion and render them unconscious. Getting voluntary brain damage is fine?
People can modify their bodies, jump out of planes, juggler chainsaws, spit fire, shoot guns for a hobby, celebrate with fireworks, swim in the Drake passage, but me, at home, doing LSD alone and watching great movies from the 60's is illegal.... becauseeeee?
i didnt say the reason was fair or cool. if you're not on duty or responsible, go bananas. theres cities you can move to where drugs are legal and everyone is quite civilized.
but i don't want my president to be tripping, even on holidays.
More of the same, zzzz.
No there aren't "cities in which drugs are legal". There are cities in which use is decriminalised. UN drug laws still apply. Even in countries which have made cannabis legally available, it's still technically illegal under UN laws, it's just been "made available" through legal shenanigans.
i didnt say the reason was fair or cool
You gave a completely irrational reason which would never happen. According to what we know of these substances, it's infinitely more probably that you'll go to work drunk as a surgeon than going in under the effects of psychedelics.
It's just not realistic what you said "the reason" is. You're perpetuating the exact thing I'm asking about, and you don't even understand that you have a baseless fear of the thing I'm talking about and you don't even know it.
but i don't want my president to be tripping, even on holidays
But you'd presumably be fine with them boxing and drinking alcohol? And alcohol as I've shown you with science, is way more harmful.
And as someone who's known and interacted with literally thousands and thousands and thousands of drunk and high people, no other substance makes a person as fucked up as alcohol. Drunk people lose their coordination, inhibition, they fall, they vomit, they fight, they harasss.
And even with those things, if you take some care, you can avoid getting that drunk, as most people do.
You're denying that substances which we know are physically less inebriating and less addictive could be used responsibly.
It's like you're trying to argue you're afraid of hitting your head on a pillow when you lay down but have no problem jumping from a cliff to some rocks below it despite usually breaking a leg or two. And that that is why pillows need to stay illegal.
I think the mindset of a society is hard to change. We do see some progress towards the use of psychedelics for mental treatments which I think is great(at least in my area of the world). Is it enough ? Not to my taste but it's progress. I can't wait for people to have access to that kind of help!
I'm still using mushrooms from time to time to deal with personal issues, trying to find a different perspective on my own, it has helped me numerous times. I think it also helped me reduce my overall stress and prejudice.
I would suggest you also try to find different perspectives on how people got different opinions on the subject. I really don't think being aggressive towards them the way you have been helps anybody. If anything, your opinion/facts are discarded quicker because you dont appear as a respectable source of information. You appear too emotionally connected to the subject. Especially to people who may be scared or closed to those different ideas.
I would suggest you also try to find different perspectives on how people got different opinions on the subject
No offense, but; oh, please.
I find it extremely annoying that people pretend as if I've not listened to or considered the "different opinions". If it even was different opinions. It never really is. That's my point. People don't really form an opinion of the subject as an aversion to it. If I could just relay my personal experiences to you. The frustration of politely bringing the topic up pretty much always ends in people getting extremely upset. And I've worked customer service for decades. I know how to be polite.
I don't need to accept the asinine propaganda being touted as someone's opinion. Like the "I don't want my doctor being high" shit. It's almost as disrespectfully asinine as "if people do LSD, they'll peel themselves as oranges or try to fly by jumping of high rise buildings". No respectable doctor is someone who goes to work high. And if they're a doctor who's not respectable and have a drug issue, they shouldn't be a doctor, but those doctors exist currently. And according to actual science we have on the issue, reforming drug laws to be more liberal really works on addicts, so legalising drugs will actually make it less likely your doctor would be high. Doctors have access to pharmaceuticals all the time, so why on Earth would they need to wait for them to be legal? Them being legal wouldn't make it okay for them to be under the influence at work, just like it's not okay for them to be under the influence now.
See. I have considered their "opinions". More than they have. And that's my issue with it. People get somewhat upset, and then say "have you considered", when it's literally them who are refusing to even consider my side.
If anything, your opinion/facts are discarded quicker
That is a myth as well, btw. Well, according to the flimsy research we have.
What is true however, is that some people will sometimes (or most of the time) perceive neutral attitudes as hostile ones. Unfortunately, not my issue. Where I live, we speak directly. It's in our culture.
However, for that one guy, I'm not really being neutral towards. But this comment, for instance, is completely neutral.
You know who appears too emotionally connected to a subject? People who can't even consider something else than what someone programmed into their brain through shitty propaganda, because they get extremely emotionally upset if they even try.
It's a cold hard fact that prohibition of drugs is extremely harmful towards the planet, and any sort of even indirect defense of it or defense of aversion towards discussing it is bad for the world in the long run.
Imagine if you were suddenly transported to say to the 1800's or something. Imagine how annoyed and disgusted you would be with people who'd get annoyed (or even downright violent) at you for you trying to talk about how chattel slavery is bad.
edit oh I forgot to mention, there's one person that I actually managed to completely convert during a single night. He began touting 60's propaganda. (Literally, he was like 70 or something at the time and this was in 2011 or something.) He was the president of the local Mensa. (Any my coworker, he worked part time essentially.) He actually considered my points. It took a while to get through the propaganda, but once I just posed the same simple questions enough times (and after a bottle of Jägermeister) he suddenly stopped at one point when he was raising his finger in protest, then froze, looked somewhere far and was like. "Huh. I think you got me with that one." And that's how you recognise intelligence. He actually listened, unlike 99% of the population with that extreme aversion to the whole topic.