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The debate organizers failed Canadians with this half-baked format.
Zero fact checking. Zero effort to stop people talking over each other. Zero allowance for Carney to response to the unceasing bald face lies hurled by all three others.
Just a complete and utter waste of time. No one wants this garbage, this is why so many Canadians don’t bother to tune in. In no way would anyone seeing this be better informed than when they went in.
Maybe a competent manager of the status quo is the best we can hope for out of electoral politics for now, but sooner or later we're going to need someone with big new ideas.
Well said. 100% agree.
The challenge for the prairies is that we need to undo the brain rot that has told the people in those provinces their only future is in servicing American oil extractors.
There is a story for these provinces. The Norwegian or Saudi model of having the oil extraction being state-owned — and then using the profits to enrich the population — has been tremendously successful.
Alberta and Saskatchewan control these rights in their provinces and the centre and left should be screaming this from the hilltops. The oil and minerals are non-renewable and they should focus on getting value to enrich their own populations, not rush to produce at a discount in order to enrich American shareholders.
Perhaps it’s a failure of imagination on my part.
What I see from the NDP for example are extremely poorly considered centre-left policies that don’t go far enough but yet at the same time are ignorant of the economics they want to continue working within.
Take for example their proposal for national rent control. This is a disastrously ignorant policy proposal inside the context of a market economy as it will instruct the markets to halt any future construction of rental units.
Whereas I believe what they need to be doing is either what Carney is proposing, or giving up on the idea of markets entirely and using socialist tools to directly build the homes that the market has failed to build.
But I’ll take your advice to heart and listen if someone comes up with an alternative I’ve not considered.
If Carney gets a majority and is unable to substantively turned things around, I’m giving up on capitalism.
I sincerely believe we will never have a better candidate to represent the perspective of directed market economics. As the sportsball chant goes: “If he can’t do it, no one can.”
Which is separate from saying everyone should agree with it.
I’d love to see a similarly highly-competent socialist economics nerd leading the NDP in our future.
No, it doesn’t. There are two important differences.
PP is a devotee of the cult of the free market, that markets are best and all we need to do is remove restrictions on them. Carney believes markets should serve to people, that the end goal isn’t just naked efficiency but they we need market forces directed to get human-centric outcomes.
This is extensively covered in Carney’s 2021 book “Values” which I encourage everyone to read in order to understand the important differences in these approaches. Carney’s approach is an explicit rejection of the idiotic free market cultism of PP and his ilk.
Another critical difference is in competence. Carney is an experienced leader who was so well-regarded in his field that the UK selected him as the first ever non-local to run the Bank of England. Whereas PP can’t even manage to handle questions from friendly press, let alone lead something.
So no, they are not the same. You might still want to prefer an explicitly socialist approach that rejects markets entirely, which is a legitimate perspective for sure. But aside from the revolution party no one is really advocating that at the federal level.
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I’m not sure why you deleted that, because you’re absolutely correct.
If not for being targeted, my own country would have elected a shitbird and we’d have become the lone US toady as the world isolated both of our countries, while the Americans treated us like an open pit mine.
So it’s not that I think my countrymen are inherently superior. The Albertans who want to create a landlocked country — deeply vulnerable to American bullying — are acting dumber than the poverty stricken folks supporting Spraytan.
And it’s not that I don’t trust democracy, I do trust that it’s reflecting will of the people. The American voters have shown a lack of priority to respecting their own commitments worldwide and a dislike of the world order that placed them at the centre. So while many in the country do have that commitment, their inability to keep the deplorables out of power means that the rest of the world can have no illusions about depending on them going forward.
Love that idea and I’m going to steal that when discussing that in the future
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It’s not just money, it’s the realization that we are nothing to them. It’s the betrayal of seeing someone you thought was a friend stab you in the front without remorse.
So I do believe it is different this time. Perhaps history will reveal you to be correct — PP yipping about being “Americas best friend” indicates at some think the old status quo will return — but I don’t think so.
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Oh, you misunderstand me.
Absolutely yes, people will continue to trade with the US after a few years. Hell, they are still doing it today!
What’s different is the level of dependence the rest of the world will enable in the future. Their special status no longer applies; and there is no trust they will be good actors in the future.
Long term cooperation will be built in anticipation of likely irrational and volatile behaviour. Something like the integrated North American auto industry or aligning with the US as primary defence contractor or intelligence, these mistakes will be not be repeated.
There will continue to be trade, but across the world a higher priority will be given to domestic production and alternative suppliers for critical products. For example Canada had been slowly retreating from our protectionist policies on dairy — but instead I expect these to now be strengthened. I expect to see a stronger push away from reliance on the US for military equipment, semiconductors, financial and digital services, and more.
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I need to hire you to summarize my lengthy pretentious blathering into a nice concise sentence. :)
Gay marriage may be a good example of your argument, because I’m not sure how they’d be able to accomplish repealing that in law without using section 33.
But while things like anti-terrorism or “tough on crime” were harmful, if section 33 is not employed then we still have charter rights and these things can be challenged and overturned in the court system.
Which still sucks, a lot. But having PP saying that they’d jump to using the big stick of notwithstanding to support a bullshit American policy that failed there is a significant step worse. Because now we know for certain that they will use this stick, and no courts or opposition can stop them if they get power.
This is why I get prickly at the idea of people saying this is no big deal, they always do this. Which is what I inferred from your original comment, apparently falsely. Because this is big and new and will enable much more harm in a way that will be unstoppable.
So we must act with urgency to stop them before it can start. It was already important but now its a crisis — and yet our newsmedia focuses on inane stuff because talking about policies only policy nerds care about doesn’t get clicks and views.
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From my perspective in Canada, there’s nothing the US can do to unfuck this situation.
Let’s say folks unseated Comrade Spraytan somehow and reversed all of his policies. I would still never trust their country again with economic or security dependence in the way that much of the world has enabled in the status quo.
It was the American voters who selected this foolishness, not once but twice. They and their country will not be trusted for a generation or maybe longer. They threw away a very good thing for them because of abject greed, and now it’s gone forever.
Can you elaborate? I’ll admit I was living abroad during the Harper years, and I’m unfamiliar with any pledges to override our charter rights before. My understanding is that this type of open commitment to take away our rights is entirely new behaviour at the federal level.
The difference between “I don’t like their policy” and “these people will use section 33 to negate our fundamental rights” is a significant difference to me.
Respectfully, I don’t believe that’s something you want to say or joke about in a public forum.
That’s fair. I inferred a smug tone from it but text is a hard medium to convey or receive tone.
What I thought I recognized in your comment was an attitude I’ve participated in for at least a decade. Oh, I’m so smart, I’ll make some quip here to show that I’m way ahead of the curve here and you lot are just catching up. Look at me here on the sidelines, I’m so cool unlike you naive suckers trying to make a difference.
But I don’t know that was your attitude. If it helps, consider that I was speaking to my past self and not you.
Well said. With people like you out there helping to stop it, we will dump him and his maga ideology in the trash where it belongs
It’s impossible to maintain so many competing “top priorities”
Trying to do too much and failing the execution was Trudeaus downfall, and the next PM will have even more to deal with as top priorities.
Pulling in climate issues to new trade partnerships and new housing policies is a way to keep progress towards climate goals while also keeping focused on practical issues we need to solve in the short term.