hendrik @ hendrik @lemmy.ml

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4 yr. ago

I'm sorry, I really don't get all the innuendo here. Are we talking about a Macbook or another laptop here that gets support for 10 years? I like to pay about 1200€ for a laptop and it usually lasts me like 6-8 years. But 1 TB SSD is a bit short of what I'm comfortable with. If I configure a M3 Macbook with 24GB of RAM and 2TB of SSD it comes down to 3149€. That is about $3.400 after taxes. Another laptop I really like is the frame.work laptop. The AMD Ryzen 7 should be plenty fast. The price including 32GB of memory and 2 TB of storage is 1918€ or about $2.070 after taxes. And in the years to come you can fix it and upgrade it however you like. So your $1900 sounds about right if it's blazing fast and lasts you 10 years. I just wonder which laptop you're talking about.

Kein Plan... Ich hab irgendwie weniger Probleme hier Leute zu finden die auf eine (halbwegs) gesunde Art bekloppt sind und mit denen es Spass macht sich zu unterhalten. Aber vielleicht habe ich es auch zu rosig (an)gemalt. Beileibe ist hier nicht alles gut. Ich bin auf einige Arschlöcher getroffen, blöde Menschen mit denen ich mich nicht abgeben muss... Und irgendwie schwankt es in meinem Empfinden hier auch sehr. Als eine Horde von zehntausenden Menschen ankam war es eine ganze Weile super, Aufbruchsstimmung, nette Gespräche. Dann wurde es normaler, dann habe ich ganz oft gesehen dass Leute nur mit negativen Sachen antworten... an Positivem vorbeiwischen und nur schreiben wenn es etwas Anzumäkeln oder zu Widersprechen gibt. Dann wurde es wieder besser. Zwischendurch hat mich die Kacke mit Israel und Palästina ganz an dem Konzept menschliche Unterhaltung zweifeln lassen, und die Zeit in der die Föderation kaputt war, war auch eine ziemliche Durststrecke. Nichtsdestoweniger bin ich mir nicht ganz so sicher wo die Reise hingeht... Ganz so enthusiastisch wie letzten Sommer bin ich aber auch nicht mehr. Naja. Die Tankies ignoriere ich gekonnt, auch wenn sie es einem manchmal schwer machen. Trolle füttere ich selten, die gibt es ja überall im Netz. Und die Nazis filtert irgendwer anders für mich heraus, wahrscheinlich die Einstellungen der Instanzen die ich nutze. (Oder der Fakt, dass ich mir nur Kram anschaue, den ich auch abonniert habe.)

Aber wieauchimmer. Es gibt auch interessante Menschen, eine Handvoll sehr gut funktionierender Ecken. Ich wünschte mir nur hier wären auch ein paar mehr Nerds die irgendwelche Mikrocontroller zusammenlöten oder über ihre anderen wahnwitzigen Freizeitbeschäftigungen berichten würden. (Und weniger Zeitungsartikel und Politik.)

That would explain it. I mean if your provider provides you with a proper certificate, you can also use that. But often times it's just a temporary self-signed placeholder that's only good for development and not valid.

Ja, wobei sowas hier schon viel diverser ist. Drüben auf den Normalo-Plattformen wird ja alles diktiert vom Kommerz, den Webekunden, welche Geschäftsmodelle die Bezahl-Dienstleister tragen und das Unternehmen gut darstehen lassen oder die Anleger glücklich machen. Ich glaube ob es ethisch ist jemand einem eine Plattform anzubieten ist dort nicht von Belang. Das ist im freien Netz nicht zwingend so. Viele Leute mögen einfach keine Nazis und Schwurbler und setzen die einfach vor die Tür. Bei Peertube hab ich das mit den Schwurblern gesehen, und hier sind auch die meisten Verbindungen zu den ausgewachsenen Faschos gekappt worden. (Und die Vielfalt im Netz war einmal. Heute geht das meiste über wenige Ökosysteme von einer Hand voll Großkonzernen.)

Where did you get your certificates from and what's the exact error message? Maybe you're using self-signed certificates. Those don't get accepted by anyone else. Your path doesn't look like the default letsencrypt/acme path...

and RMS. And we need a third person to get to the holy trinity. Greg Kroah-Hartman? Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie? Bjarne Stroustrup? We could choose Lennart Poettering, that'd certainly annoy a few people. Maybe we need some more apostles and additional people since all of that is based on the work of so many different people.

Mmh, everyone is allowed to make stupid choices. I've told multiple people that drawers in the kitchen and in your wardrobe are awesome. That you don't need the Adobe suite to cut your 1.5 travel videos a year, let alone a $1200 phone... Stop using software when we have way better alternatives that are also easier to use. Many people don't listen. And they're entitled not to listen to me, it's their money, life and choices.

If I might ask: Who is leaving and what for? Mac? I've seen some developers buy the newer M2/M3 Macbooks. I think they're nice. But not nice enough to pay the price for one with a decent amount of RAM and storage myself.

No it doesn't. If you don't care and just want anything that runs Steam, don't bother. Just pick anything, it runs fine on most Linux distributions, Windows and probably Mac. You're fine with tossing a coin. I'd choose Linux in that case since it's cheaper.

A proper conversation would be like this:

What shall I use?

Depends... What do you want to do with your computer?

Play games with Steam.

Alright, then use XY. Wanna know more?

No.

Fine.

And I think there isn't a good solution to this. Ideally you would enable people to make good choices for themselves, know how to handle the tools they use...

Interesingly enough they come to me to fix their printer and antivirus anyways, and I have no idea of what I'm doing since I haven't used Windows in like 15 years, except for updating my GPS and filling out time-sheets for work and stuff like that. And in the meantime Microsoft switches things around every few years and bolts on a new interface onto their office suite and then moves it to the cloud. I don't think it would make any difference if my relatives were using Linux in the first place. They would still need to ask someone to fix their printer drivers and handle big version upgrades. And if it was me at the other end, it would be way more convenient to me to help them.

I stopped advertising Linux to people who didn't ask me to... I'll tell them I use different things on my computer and why this software is way better. If they pick up on that and want to try out of their own motivation, I'll gladly help.

Hehe, I think it's more the Windows people who spread that urban legend. While I completely agree with you, I didn't learn anything new here 😉

Is there a client that does that? Sorry I lost track of the different clients. But I'd like to try. I know Eternity (which I use on my Android phone) and the default webui can't do that. But I haven't tried all the options.

I don't quite get your wording. If you mean similar communities should be merged in all cases, I think I'd disagree. People might want to subscribe to a specific community. And it'd be complex to figure out moderation etc, since the root of the platform is a federated architecture and this somewhat goes against that. I think it'd be more a UI / client feature, tied into a cross-posting mechanism.

Thank you very much for explaining, and the whole AMA.

Concerning the "providing the project for free"... I think that's too simplistic. I mean users have expectations anyways. And you must have some motivation to maintain an open source project. Otherwise you wouldn't put it out there, engage with your users, fix their issues and incorporate their requests. Or you'd make that clear in the first line of the Readme as some people do.

I think open source is giving and taking. It's not about legal obligations (we usually waive every responsibility in every open source license.) But perhaps ethically. I as a user feel obligated to honor and respect your work and the time you've put in. And I shouldn't expect anything except for everyone abides by the license. But the devs aren't the only one putting in time and effort. Downstream are admins who run the actual instances. There might be an ethical obligation to not waste their time either. And there are moderators and users who make the platform become alive. They also offer their time for free and are part of the ecosystem, like the developers are. And ethically it is correct to treat people nice who put in a few hours to prepare a proper pull request and work towards the same goal as core developers.

And there are a few unique circumstances. This is a social network/link aggregator. And as such it relies to some degree on the network effect. It won't work without a certain amount of users and them being happy here. Lemmy devs seem (to me) invested in the project and not just coding something for money. So you want it to be successful and catering for users is part of the equation. Additionally the users of a social network trust the platform with their private data. You can't take legal responsibility for that. But if you accept users doing that, it's at least an ethical obligation to make good choices.

And the situation is: Since you have a few full-time developers... It's not a hobby project anymore. So it's a bit more complicated. And money might come with expectations. I personally differentiate between donations that are meant as a bounty, this money comes with obligations. And donations for the great work you've done so far. These come without.

I think you're doing a good job. I especially like that Lemmy development doesn't seem to be focused on growth above all. You could implement things differently and completely focus on not showing user-facing issues, in order to assure fast growth. Or write a Reddit clone like some people would like, including gamification, awards and stuff. But you don't seem to be interested in that. And that aligns well with what I like. I want a nice place to engage with people. I don't need another platform that is commercial and does things in order to be successful at the market.

I'm grateful. There are still bugs and a few more complicated annoyances I'd like to see being addressed. But I really enjoy spending some of my time here.

• make-or-break (adj.)
• all or nothing (phrase)

To me perfect is the enemy of good is: you don't arrive at good, because you set unrealistic goals for example. But theoretically you all want to go in the same direction.

All or nothing is taking chances, gambling. It's a different category. It doesn't have to do anything with one solution being good or bad. It's saying I want that, no compromises. Like if you say 'I want to go to Disneyland or I'm not coming with you.' There's not necessarily anything good or perfect or bad in it. With political parties it's often they have to show their voters they're determined and not taking shit. So they say 'we're not compromising'. And that way you have a clear winner and loser. Can be beneficial or detrimental to a goal. The motivation could be entirely different. But both things can also be at play at the same time.

I hope those wants and needs aren't mutually exclusive. I think most open source projects do a good job in catering for both. I'm not involved in Lemmy development so I don't really know what's going on here. But I've sent one-off contribution to various projects, sometimes contributed single features or helped to sort something out. It always felt appreciated.

Sure, a drive-by commit every now and then and no responsibility is a completely different level than maintaining a (large) project and putting in that effort and dedication. I think a healthy open source project has both. Maintenance and the responsibility/decisions by a core team. And the community contributions make up by adding diversity, being close to what the user needs and adding manpower by a larger group of people, meaning the individual contributions might be smaller, but by many more people. Good communication between the devs and the community usually helps to get quality contributions.

Since I read a few comments here... What is your oppinion on more democratic platforms? I mean something like electing moderators. (Or dropping them in a democratic process.) Or voting for other things in a community.

(This is more a hypothetical question. I guess with the architecture as is, it can easily be exploited. And there is no way to implement this properly without severe changes and consequences.)

developers are notoriously bad at testing their own code, so I dont see what we can improve in this regard.

Sounds like software development... I mean automated tests help. But you're developing a distributed/federated platform. Unit tests won't do it. Maybe infrastructure that spins up a small fleet of instances and checks their ability to federate posts, delete comments and simulates interaction. That'd assure the most important aspects keep working. And I think there are tools for that available. But I get it. It's complicated, there are real-world instances with special (niche) setups, you're constrained, it has to be worth the effort and there are other important things to do.

Maybe just do your best not to break too many things and we (users) can complain and have another discussion only if it's a reoccurring problem. 😉

Sure, that's not the point at all. But wouldn't it be great if the knitting community (for example) on beehaw.org, lemmy.ml, lemmy.world and feddit.de would be merged for me into one entity for a better browsing experience? And people wouldn't post the same breaking news 3 times and the cross-posts always showed up 3 times in my timeline? (And sometimes it's the same 30 people anyways that are subscribed to all of them so the cross-posting doesn't add anything?)

I currently don't have a good idea for a UI design for that. But I think a feature like that would add to federated platforms (if done right.) But nobody said you're not allowed or it's bad to open a dozen communities with the same name and topic on different servers. That's perfectly alright. In the real world we also sometimes discuss the same topic with different people at different locations.

Thank you. A follow-up question: You sound like most things have to be done by full-time developers. Is there a healthy open-source community around Lemmy development? Do people submit enough pull-requests to fix bugs? Do people from the community contribute a substancial amount? features?

I'd like that. I think some other platforms/projects have features like this. And on Lemmy some instances duplicate everything. For example beehaw.