The Threadiverse is growing again, this time offering an effort to build a new Lemmy replacement from scratch, with API compatibility.
Seems like an interesting effort. A developer is building an alternative Java-based backend to Lemmy's Rust-based one, with the goal of building in a handful of different features. The dev is looking at using this compatibility to migrate their instance over to the new platform, while allowing the community to use their apps of choice.
Having a frontend rewrite seemed more critical than trying reimplementing the backend in a different language.
Remember, Lemmy had 4 years of development to iron out bugs, and this is essentially promising to make something in months that has a fully compatible backend to support all the third party apps, while adding features on top of what Lemmy has, and with a better front end with better mod tools to boot, with a complete rewrite of everything.
The scope of this project has planned for is already unviable. Suppose that Sublinks does reach feature parity to the current version of Lemmy, congratulations, the backend or mod tools is not something a regular user is going to notice or care about at all, all they will know is that suddenly, there are weird bugs that wasn't there before, and that causes frustration.
And this project is going to get more developer traction because... Java?
I'd like to be proven wrong, but I'm very sceptical about the success of Sublinks, because it look like a project that was started out of tech arrogance to prove a point than out of a real need, I don't work in tech, but the general trajectory of these kind of projects is that "enthusiasm from frustration" can only take you so far before the annoyance of dealing with mundane problems piles up, and the project fizzles out and ends with a whimper.
Even looking at the contributions to something like Mbin, which has been around for much shorter, you already see 6 people with more than 50 commits, while Lemmy has one
Java devs like you need to step away from the PC and stop assaulting the world with a terrible language. You should be ashamed of yourselves for inflicting decades of misery on the world.
You’re delusional if you believe people care about Nim. It has been around for 16 years and is still nothing in comparison to Java. Java won’t go anywhere and is here to stay.
Thanks but I'm a network engineer, I'm just saying your argument is pointless, the majority of devs support a certain language. How they or you feel about it doesn't matter one bit.
Citation required, because strangely enough people whom I hear about complaining about Java never seem to be the good developers but the ones I wouldn't hire
I'm pretty sure Nutomic was a Java dev before starting work on Lemmy and learning Rust from scratch. That by itself should already speak volumes.
One-Up projects like this rarely ever turn out well, that's from my own experiences. Even though this isn't a popular view, I still think I'm right on this one, we can circle back in say, 6 months, to see if my predictions are right.
I’m pretty sure Nutomic was a Java dev before starting work on Lemmy and learning Rust from scratch.
That is true, I used to be an Android developer and then learned Rust by writing code for Lemmy. Are you by any chance my new stalker?
And if we're comparing the languages, the fact alone that there are no Nullpointerexceptions makes Rust infinitely better than Java for me. I also agree that this sort of copycat project will soon be forgotten. For example have you ever heard of Rustodon?
A lot of languages have it available as a valid return value for most things, implicitly. This also means you have to do extra checking or something like this will blow up with an exception:
// java example
// can throw exception
String address = person.getAddress().toUpperCase();
// safe
String address = "";
if (person.getAddress() != null) {
person.getAddress().toUpperCase();
}
There are a ton of solutions out there. Many languages have added null-coalescing and null-conditional operators -- which are a shorthand for things like the above solutions. Some languages have removed the implicit nulls (like Kotlin), requiring them to be explicitly marked in their type. Some languages have a wrapper around nullable values, an Option type. Some languages remove null entirely from the language (I believe Rust falls into this, using an option type in place of).
Not having null isn't particularly common yet, and isn't something languages can just change due to breaking backwards compatibility. However, languages have been adding features over time to make nulls less painful, and most have some subset of the above as options to help.
I do think Option types are fantastic solutions, making you deal with the issue that a none/empty type can exist in a particular place. Java has had them for basically 10 years now (since Java 8).
// optional example
Class Person {
private String address;
//prefer this if a null could ever be returned
public Optional getAddress() {
return Optional.ofNullable(address);
}
// not this
public String getAddress() {
return address;
}
When consuming, it makes you have to handle the null case, which you can do a variety of ways.
// set a default
String address = person.getAddress().orElse("default value");
// explicitly throw an exception instead of an implicit NullPointerException as before
String address = person.getAddress().orElseThrow(SomeException::new);
// use in a closure only if it exists
person.getAddress().ifPresent(addr -> logger.debug("Address {}", addr));
// first example, map to modify, and returning default if no value
String address = person.getAddress().map(String::toUpperCase).orElse("");
I also was a professional java dev, and also had to use spring boot in most corporate environments.
I don't wanna knock anyone's re-write, because I know how difficult it is to dissuade someone when they're excited about a project. But to me, starting a new project or doing a rewrite, is the best opportunity to learn a newer, better language. We taught ourself Rust by coding lemmy, and I recently learned Kotlin / jetpack compose because I wanted to learn android development. Learning new languages is not an issue for most programmers; we have to learn new frameworks and languages every year or so if we want to keep up.
This is potentially hundreds of hours of wasted time that could be spent on other things. Even if someone absolutely hates Rust and doesn't want to contribute to the massive amount of open issues on Lemmy, there are still a lot of front-ends that could use more contributors.
it it common to announce a 'major rewrite' without having it complete?
i mean, at the moment, theres little to discern it from lemmy at the moment... why make a big public proclamation about it before you even touch the front end?
Magically no, but sometimes a clean slate is easier than a refactor. I'm speaking generally though, I've never looked at Lemmy's code, and I'm not even who you originally replied to.
There are some projects that start because of "tech arrogance" as you describe the current situation. MariaDB, Git, LibreOffice are some of the most famous ones, but I'm sure there are more.