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Parenting @lemmy.world Mike @lemmy.ml

[Teenager 13-19] Need some advice with 18 y/o

I'm going to try and keep this clear and concise.

I'm not confident in my parenting. I don't feel like I've been a good parent, but I have done the best that I can with the tools and resources that I have.

My 18 y/o has lived with us since she was 4. My partner has been in my 18y/o's life since they were 13 months old.

18y/o is copy->paste of their deadbeat mother and I don't know what to do about it. I don't know what I can do about it at this point.

I have tried to instill structure, while allowing wiggle room at times. I recognize that it's my job as the parent to draw hard lines and it's my kids job to push the boundaries and cross those lines.

18y/o is almost mute around us. Doesn't communicate much of anything beyond surface level 'pleasantries'. And it's more often than not, anything but pleasant. They (biological female) are diagnosed with ADHD, 'change disorder', anxiety and depression. I've done so much reading trying to figure out this person and how I can help, but nothing seems to help. Kid has never really be honest with therapists. Lies for no reason, and doubles down even when presented with irrefutable evidence that they've been caught. If I had to 'self-diagnose', they have ODD and are a sociopath, but I've seen how they behave around friends and peers. They only have disregard for us. Outside the home, they are a people pleaser. But if we suggest something, or ask for something to be done, it's a fight, every time.

They are a senior in high school, is a good student when there's nothing rocking their boat, but had steadily declining grades as the school year presses on. I have no idea what's going on in their life, everything is responded to with a random selection of the following list:

I don't know

I don't remember

I don't know how you want me to answer that

Do you want me to respond?

I don't see what the problem is.

I don't see how this is a big deal.

The current argument is regarding whether we should be expected to wake them up for school in the morning. I've already put my foot down about it, and since December 1st, they've already walked themselves to school twice because they overslept.

They are impossible to motivate. When things finally come to a head and an argument breaks out, which typically boils over because there can be no constructive conversation with someone who is either unable or unwilling to have a conversation. And only when the argument breaks out do we get any action on anything, and then it's an overcorrection. For example, we've been pushing for them to fill out scholarship applications for 8 months. We've had friends provide spreadsheets with links to what we collectively think are viable scholarships, for no action responses. Then when we finally get a break in the wall, they fill out scholarship applications for tens of thousands of dollars for enrollment in a school states away with misleading GPA information. We are not in a financial position to accommodate that kind of enrollment, even if we wanted to support the decision. It comes off as an "I'll show them" move.

Nevermind the drivers license thing. Can't get them to get off their ass and get their license. It's been a battle for 2 years. Something always goes wrong. Last time I pressed on it hard, we ended up in intensive outpatient therapy.

They're unmanageable and I don't know what to do for or with them. Our home is small, 800 sqft and it's a hell hole. My partner has almost left me twice over this kid's behavior over the years. Partner and kid do not get along at all at this point, and has lead to a false CPS report so my kid could try and move in with their crush's family.

There so much context missing but there's no time or room for 18 years of back story.

I don't know if there's a question here, but I need help or support, or something. Any stories or advice anyone cares to relay would be appreciated. I'm terrified that once this kid leaves, I'm never going to hear from them again. But I can't control that, and I recognize it.

Thanks for reading.

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  • I think there's a lot that you aren't telling us. You seem to focus a lot on their behavior and on the behavior of their mother (who isn't in the picture, is that right?), but are not giving much of a description of how you or your partner behave towards them, beyond the forceful adjectives like 'push', 'press', and 'drill'. That's a huge element, as it takes two to tango in relationships.

    You also speak of them in extremely derogatory terms like "getting them off their ass" or "not letting them freeload like their deadbeat bio mom" or calling them a fucking sociopath??? I can only imagine that they pick up on that lack of respect for them and respond accordingly. Kids aren't stupid.

    It seems like you have a lot of unresolved issues that you might be taking out on them and if possible I would echo the other commentor recommending therapy—but for YOU, as an individual.

    This could have been written about me by the parents I do not speak to anymore.

    • I understand where you're coming from, and yes, there's 18 years of context missing. I'm self aware enough to recognize that this comment has made me a little defensive. I had hoped that by providing some additional context throughout the conversations I've been having all day would fill in some of the gaps but I also understand that these are conversations and not necessarily followed by everyone who has been kind enough to send their opinions.

      Defensively, I'm speaking out of frustration and emotion, to a space that doesn't involve my teen. That should have some weight in this conversation, but your criticism is valid nonetheless.

      The short condensed version is that it's been 13 years lying, deceitful and sneaky behavior, provable fabrication of events, and denials of truths. 13 years of being told by professionals that we need to stop berating the teen to which we've been forced to send pocket recordings of events to professionals to disprove what our teen has been telling them was fact. Our teen asks for nothing, expects everything, and doesn't say please or thank you. We did not raise them this way. Those lessons have either been forgotten or flat out abandoned in their disdain for us.

      Our teen doesn't respect us, our home, our rules. We're not allowed to expect anything of them, yet they expect everything from us, and without question. Obviously there's a certain level of providing that a parent is expected to do for their children, but an 18 year old senior in high school is trying to tell me that it's expected of me to wake them up at 6:30 in the morning if they sleep through their alarm because they were up all night playing fortnite or hanging out on discord. I don't think so.

      And to clarify, I didn't call them a "fucking sociopath". Sociopathy is a clinical phrase. Would you feel better if I called it ASPD or anti-social personality disorder? Like I get it, beinc called a sociopath has been bastardized by slang, but it's still a diagnosis. Albeit, maybe a little antiquated.

      • Please realize, you're accusing them of being like this since they were 5 years old. They were barely more than a baby. Of course they're going to lie, they were a little kid. Of course they weren't going to follow your rules to a T, they were a little kid. They had no ulterior motives, and yet you've completely demonized them as if they did. Since they were FIVE dude.

        You're speaking of them like they are 35 and you've been dealing with their shit for 13 years, but they were only 4 or 5 when you too them in. You've been raising a child that you've been treating as if they're a monster and are shocked that they don't respect or like you very much.

        Yes, I am aware that you didn't use the word "fucking" before calling them a sociopath. That was my own emphasis on not being able to believe that you'd rather believe that of your child instead of having empathy for them. I think you're trying to hide behind breaking everything down to seem very logical to try and rationalize your actions/behavior towards your child over the years.

        Again, as a child that came from a similar environment, if you have any wish of salvaging this relationship, I would focus heavily on some introspection and accountability, and hope they'd be willing to accept some sort of apology in the future. I really wouldn't be surprised if they were angry at you for a long time.

        • I've already addressed some of this elsewhere, but I felt it necessary to follow up directly. My teen has always been troubled. They have always been highly sensitive. Since they were 5, when we became a stable fixture in their life. We have provided anything they have asked for, from extra curriculars, to personal support as we were able. My teen is a pretty good artist. I work in the fine art reproduction field. I own my own company. I can tell you unequivically (albeit in my opinion), that while my teen has solid artistic talent, they're not unique with their style, or subject matter (character designs). When my teen is given an assignment to break out of that preference, they shine. They excel. But it's never because they want to. They're an extremely talented photographer. They currently use my Nikon D200/D70. But they have never picked up the camera unless it was a school assignment. I have even offered to buy a new camera body, but like most things, it appears to be a passing ADHD phase. They achieved Junior Black Belt and up to Blue in senior when they were younger. The only rule we ever had was that they needed to participate in an extracurricular. One. Singular. It was up always to them. And only when a shouting match breaks out is there ever a push to do something else. Moving into ice hockey was another item where they were skilled, seemed to be enjoying themselves, but they claim to not remember any of the people they played with who are peers at their school. A one year stint in color guard, where they genuinely seemed happy followed that before another breakdown and it became much harder to encourage the participation.

          My teen has been through several friend groups, and we only ever hear their side, and about how everyone else is wrong or has wronged them. It's a pattern of behavior that becomes clear over time. I understand that I didn't detail any of this out. I honestly wasn't expecting as harsh as a response as I've received. I also tried to be pretty forward with my comments that I am not claiming to be right. I'm claiming to be stuck. The fact that I'm reaching out at all, and am actively engaging should be an indicator that I actually give a shit and am trying to figure out a path forward. A path to be better for my teen. I have empathy for my teen. I recognize that they're struggling. The difficulty is that while they're struggling, it's my cross to bear and that, in turn, means I'm struggling.

          I don't think that expecting an 8 year old to know they have to pee or not, and further, an 8 year old shouldn't be fighting back tears because of our reluctance to believe them when yell at us that "they don't need to go" when we insist that they try to use the bathroom before we go on a walk or a road trip or whatever.

          I don't think that a 7 year old should be stealing from special needs classmates because they want the thing more than the special needs classmate needs whatever that thing is.

          I don't think that a 10 year old should be telling anyone who will listen that all we do is yell at them while we're able to disprove it with audio and video playback. *Edit: I don't think parent's should ever feel that this should even be necessary. How do you think it felt to me that I had to do this? How do you think it feels that I feel the need to protect myself from my kid?

          I don't think that we, as parents, should be subjected to incoherent rants blaming us for scenarios that never happened. I understand that my teen is troubled. I have often wondered if someday they'll get a schizophrenia diagnosis because of their insistence that whatever their brain has convinced them has taken place, in realty only took ever happened in their mindplace.

          I don't believe that we should have to accommodate someone who fails to communicate because a conversation doesn't go exactly how they have prepared for. If we stray from the script they have prepared, then their world melts down.

          My teen has mental health issues. I am woefully unequipped to deal with them, especially any longer. Once they turned 14 in our state, I can no longer force them to see their therapist. I can no longer force them to talk to their psychologist. I can no longer enforce them to take their meds. I can make strong suggestions, but that goes nowhere, as I've evidenced elsewhere in this comment thread. We have maintained as long as we've been able to. And at this point, I'm just trying to salvage my relationship with them. I hope you can understand.

          • My teen has always been troubled. They have always been highly sensitive.

            Okay, I am REALLY not seeing all this education about ADHD you claim you have.

            Of [curse redacted] course they have always been troubled and "highly sensitive" (aka ADHD). It is a LIFELONG CONDITION. In order to be life long it has to be there from their first breath to their dying day. In fact, as a diagnostic criteria for this label it has to be life long, not caused by some later-occurring trauma.

            You act as if this is an excuse. No, dude, you are just telling us that your child has ADHD over and over and over and over and over again in ways that I can tell that YOU don't know you are. This is like ADHD 101. Where the [curse redacted] did you get your education? Almost watching two whole YouTube videos done by clickbait artists bullshirting? (this last bit meant to provide levity; I heard the whole "you didn't research, you almost watched two whole YouTube videos" somewhere and thought it was funny) I suspect that you have sought information, but that you've been ill served by resources you took to be credible that were instead abelist bias-pushing. If Dr. Gabor Mate was at all in your research folder, then just know you've absolutely found your way to the wrong information. You are looking for Dr. Ned Hallowell and Dr. Russell Barkley.

            You are and continue to be completely unskilled in parenting ADHD. Please own this. Once you do, then you will be open to positive changes. Else, you'll lose your child. Parenting a child of a neurotype you do not possess is all in the logic brain and cannot come from the intuition brain.

            Edited because I read other comments of yours -- You seem to have had incredibly poor luck in the ways you reached out for help. Not all therapists, in fact I'd be wiling to say it is a minority of therapists and they are specialists, are able to assist a neurodivergent household. Neurotypical therapy DOES NOT WORK for a neurodivergent home; in fact it harms more than it helps. Your local CHADD or ADDA chapter will be able to point you to therapeutic professionals with neurodivergent qualifications who can provide actionable guidance to make things better. This level of therapeutic professional you need is a very niche specialist who only deals in neurodivergence. So one of the hallmarks of someone who isn't able to help is someone whose PsychologyToday profile offers therapy for more than just neurodivergent families/households/individuals.

      • it’s been 13 years lying, deceitful and sneaky behavior, provable fabrication of events, and denials of truths

        Okay, but that's just typical child-with-ADHD. Show me a child with ADHD and I'll show you a liar who fabricates events and denies truths.

        Would you like to know why? Read on!

        Because the child with ADHD has been held to standards that are absolutely completely out of whack with who they are biologically (yes ADHD is a biology condition which is why medication is effective). But being children, they aren't able to articulate. So they lie because it 'makes the problem go away'. What problem?

        The parent asking them if they've done their homework. They say yes instead of -- No, I haven't done my homework yet because despite wanting to, I cannot get my body to cooperate with my desires. I absolutely intend to have it done by the time it is due, I'm a good child who enjoys homework and wants to meet those expectations. I'll do it as soon as my body starts following my brain's directions and sits down/picks up a pencil. If I tell you I haven't done it yet, you'll ask me, "Why?" and I just cannot explain to you because though TheInfamousJ is able to type all this out, that's because she's 22 years my senior so has learned a lot of metacognition I don't have seeing as how my brain isn't even finished developing yet. I don't have the words. So yes, Dad [or whatever parent you are], I've done my homework because by tomorrow afternoon this statement will be true anyway and it saves me from having to deal with your ish about me, my brain, and how completely unacceptable it and I am to you. ...... except that time where my body starts following my brain's directions? It never came before the homework was due. I need help. But you are punishing me rather than assisting me.

        and so it goes

    • This could have been written about me by the parents I do not speak to anymore.

      Samesies. And it can be said the same about my kid by me. Fortunately he’s only 4. That’s why I’m in therapy.

      • That is so awesome, I'm glad you're in therapy and working on yourself. It's hard to unlearn those toxic behaviors. I'm expecting my first and am trying to find one for myself; my biggest fear is treating mine like I was treated because it's the only parenting model I know. Thankfully my spouse comes from a much more loving environment and has helped me so much just by being an example of how a supportive family should function.

        Wishing you and your family the best

        • Story time.

          The really funny thing is that the turning point in my relationship with my parents was when I googled a friends name. He was a musician.

          I had a CD of his that I lost in a car that I sold to a rando on Craigslist a few years prior to our story.

          When I googled him I found a blog where he had started documenting restoring this car (a 1990 Volvo wagon, of all things). He had found my friends CD. The blog went dark after only a few posts but I was intrigued. He catalogued a few other things of mine he found in the car, namely a wig that I used in a costume, and an herb grinder (which he documented as a wig-care-product) and I was amused at the stories he was coming up with for my stuff.

          Googled the guy. Found him on an enthusiasts forum for this type of car (honestly the internet is an amazing thing).

          Found a post from him from where he was introducing himself and plugging the aforementioned blog a couple days after the first blogpost.

          In the post, he talked at length about the process of buying the car, including a very specific anecdote from when we test drove it.

          I wasn’t home to actually handle the sale of the car. My dad was. And apparently my dad ranted to this complete stranger about how much of a shit kid I am. In so much length and detail that this random person felt the need to retell his rant on the internet to countless other random strangers, including me…said shit kid.

          That rant sounded exactly like op.

          Next place my mind went…what are the odds that of all the random strangers my dad meets in a day, and out of all the people in his actual circle, the only one he vented to about me would also write a post documenting it for me to stumble on by accident? Probably zero. Ergo he must’ve been talking shit about me to anyone who would listen.

          In retrospect I admit I was a shit kid (well, presenting as a shit kid). But in retrospect I also realize that I was through a pit of depression and anxiety and a ton of shit that came along with it. And later diagnosed with ADHD. In retrospect, it should have been painfully obvious to anyone, but especially my parents. But instead of doing anything constructive, it was met with hostility and anger and resentment, and fights constantly broke out over petty shit.

          Thats why I feel fine admitting that I was absolutely acting shitty at the time, but I don’t feel fine repairing that bridge after reading all the things he said about me to a complete stranger. What a massive gut punch it is to read such hurtful things about you, from your own father, on a public forum.

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