I don't think this is why people call you tankie. We call you tankie because you insist that the only way to achieve communism is through violent revolution and totalitarian dictatorship. And you LARP as revolutionaries and jerk each other off about how much you hate liberals.
If we follow the readings of Marx we can only conclude that a revolution is a completely authoritative and violent act upon which we dispossess a group of people, in this case a class, the bourgeoisie, from their means of production, they will not let it go peacefully. Keeping things this way requires what Marx called the dictatorship of the proletariat, which in itself is also an authoritative act. Marxism is inherently authoritarian, but not because of the reasons you believe, because achieving a change in the relations of the means of production always ends up in violence. The same happened with bourgeois revolutions against feudalism. The liberal or whatever thing you are okay with, as long as class society is maintained, and a system that handles the means of production is sustained, it will be authoritarian, because it imposes the will upon the people. That's the basic difference with anarchism, we believe in the same, buy they think that once they do a revolution, they force they will use to maintain it will not be authoritative. We own that.
Oh god I'm glad someone's saying it. I'm a progressive person, have no problem with socialism or communism as a concept, but there's a large amount of people around here that are so "far left" that they've wrapped back around to the far right without realizing it. Literally, they're posting the same garbage I'd expect in r/conservative over on reddit.
No, you're not.
You? A progressive? You were defending that weirdo who misgendered someone, and, after being called out on it, called the other person a "snowflake". Progressives would never do that, but you decided to side with the debatebro.
"violent revolution"
Do you think that the rich will allow their power to be voted away? Do you think that a country that has done regime change on literally dozens of other countries will simply allow a socialist to be elected? Do you really believe that the FBI or the CIA won't put a bullet in someone's head if they believe it is necessary for maintaining the neoliberal order?
Your horseshoe theory is exactly why people hate dem-aligned liberals, because they tell themselves that they are the real progressives (see the coping below from @DarraignTheSane@lemmy.ml, perfect username for that mindset btw) by just gesticulating away any leftist critiques of their position, even extremely obvious ones like "Biden is an unrepentant segregationist" or "There is zero mention of 'American imperialism' at any Presidential debate and that's for a fucking reason ". No, the Adults in the Room know that the way to stop the imperial war machine that has gone unabated since the late '40s is with some policy wonkery and voting harder for leftwing candidates who aren't allowed by the system to make it to their respective General Election.
The owning class owns not just most of what is in this country, but also the country itself through its politicians. This should not be an insight, let alone a point of contention.
Alright then, what's your answer? March on the capital, gun down anyone who stands in your way? Read Marx to people in public until they all vote for an effectively nonexistent communist party?
There's what I wish for society, and then there's reality. Until something changes, I choose to continue to live in reality.
I'll refer you to my comment below as to what I have to say on the subject. If you have anything in specific that you'd like to pose a rebuttal to I'd like to hear it, but my guess is that all I'll hear from you is spouting more idealistic nonsense.
(edit) - To boil it down to a single point: Until we get rid of our first past the post, winner take all voting system, nothing changes and no 3rd party can take hold in this country. The only option for those of us who have to live here is to vote for the party that has at least some progressive politicians in its ranks. With FPTP voting, doing otherwise is the exact same result as voting for the fascist GOP.
I'd just like to point out that Assange isn't a US citizen, Snowden is probably who the person was grasping for
That does get mentioned in the replies that were cut off, but I think it's slightly beside the point
Best reply chooses the new word for 'disappearing' that journalists will use when it happens in the West:
I don't think this is why people call you tankie. We call you tankie because you insist that the only way to achieve communism is through violent revolution and totalitarian dictatorship. And you LARP as revolutionaries and jerk each other off about how much you hate liberals.
If we follow the readings of Marx we can only conclude that a revolution is a completely authoritative and violent act upon which we dispossess a group of people, in this case a class, the bourgeoisie, from their means of production, they will not let it go peacefully. Keeping things this way requires what Marx called the dictatorship of the proletariat, which in itself is also an authoritative act. Marxism is inherently authoritarian, but not because of the reasons you believe, because achieving a change in the relations of the means of production always ends up in violence. The same happened with bourgeois revolutions against feudalism. The liberal or whatever thing you are okay with, as long as class society is maintained, and a system that handles the means of production is sustained, it will be authoritarian, because it imposes the will upon the people. That's the basic difference with anarchism, we believe in the same, buy they think that once they do a revolution, they force they will use to maintain it will not be authoritative. We own that.
Obligatory https://www.lemmy.ml/c/leftistinfighting plug... Let's continue this over there?
☝️🤓
Oh god I'm glad someone's saying it. I'm a progressive person, have no problem with socialism or communism as a concept, but there's a large amount of people around here that are so "far left" that they've wrapped back around to the far right without realizing it. Literally, they're posting the same garbage I'd expect in r/conservative over on reddit.
No, you're not.
You? A progressive? You were defending that weirdo who misgendered someone, and, after being called out on it, called the other person a "snowflake". Progressives would never do that, but you decided to side with the debatebro.
"violent revolution"
Do you think that the rich will allow their power to be voted away? Do you think that a country that has done regime change on literally dozens of other countries will simply allow a socialist to be elected? Do you really believe that the FBI or the CIA won't put a bullet in someone's head if they believe it is necessary for maintaining the neoliberal order?
Your horseshoe theory is exactly why people hate dem-aligned liberals, because they tell themselves that they are the real progressives (see the coping below from @DarraignTheSane@lemmy.ml, perfect username for that mindset btw) by just gesticulating away any leftist critiques of their position, even extremely obvious ones like "Biden is an unrepentant segregationist" or "There is zero mention of 'American imperialism' at any Presidential debate and that's for a fucking reason ". No, the Adults in the Room know that the way to stop the imperial war machine that has gone unabated since the late '40s is with some policy wonkery and voting harder for leftwing candidates who aren't allowed by the system to make it to their respective General Election.
The owning class owns not just most of what is in this country, but also the country itself through its politicians. This should not be an insight, let alone a point of contention.
Alright then, what's your answer? March on the capital, gun down anyone who stands in your way? Read Marx to people in public until they all vote for an effectively nonexistent communist party?
There's what I wish for society, and then there's reality. Until something changes, I choose to continue to live in reality.
I'll refer you to my comment below as to what I have to say on the subject. If you have anything in specific that you'd like to pose a rebuttal to I'd like to hear it, but my guess is that all I'll hear from you is spouting more idealistic nonsense.
https://lemmy.ml/comment/461546
(edit) - To boil it down to a single point: Until we get rid of our first past the post, winner take all voting system, nothing changes and no 3rd party can take hold in this country. The only option for those of us who have to live here is to vote for the party that has at least some progressive politicians in its ranks. With FPTP voting, doing otherwise is the exact same result as voting for the fascist GOP.