NYC mayoral candidate Brad Lander handcuffed by ICE
NYC mayoral candidate Brad Lander handcuffed by ICE
The arrest comes days after police handcuffed U.S. Sen. Alex Padilla after he was forcibly removed from a press conference held by DHS Secretary Kristi Noem.
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If you haven't, it's time to start arming yourself and your friends and family.
As anti-gun as I typically am, the bottom line is a decline into fascism requires as many guns as possible in as many hands as possible to end it as quickly as possible.
And it's wayyyyy beyond time for any politician or candidate with a D by their name to have some goddamn private security.
Being a democrat is such a cuck position in life.
Smart people hate them because they support the ruling class, dumb people hate them because they disagree on the culture war.
It's arm ourselves now or be disarmed when they mutilate the bodies of those they destroy.
This is such an American response.
If conflict escalates with an armed vigilante uprising, it will be used by Trump to justify everything the military does, which will include live rounds on civilian targets. An armed militia cannot compete with the military.
The only way victory (hopefully through a mutual desire not to have a civil war) is possible is if state national guard and police remain loyal to their local governor and vow to fight against the federal government on the people's behalf. But that's still massively risky.
The best thing as always otherwise is a large scale non-violent protest. Bigger and more persistent than the No Kings protests.
If conflict escalates with an armed vigilante uprising, it will be used by Trump to justify everything the military does, which will include live rounds on civilian targets. An armed militia cannot compete with the military.
News flash, the peaceful, non-violent protest were already justification for Trump using the National Guard and Marines.
So what? It's all performative at the moment precisely because the citizenry are not armed. His actions are clearly illegal even without a citizen having been shot yet. It needs to stay that way or you really will have a civil war on your hands. Is that really what you want?
In this thread, we've heard from you that,
- It's "so American" to want to be armed in self defense against fascists
- Peaceful protests are "performative"
- Violent protests will be used as justification for further acts of despotism
- The only solution is to trust the guard and/or the police to do the right thing
On its own I'd cede the first point, because Americans do have a profound gun problem. As to the third, it answers the second and the fourth - the police and their imitators are avowed fascists who will make the protests violent any way they can.
It is insufficient to hope that the guard will stand with the states, when the courts and the pentagon gang up on them they'll certainly cave. Now that dear leader is in charge, you'll hear nothing about "states rights" except when it involves taking away citizens' rights.
- and 4. Aren't right.
Peaceful protests aren't just performative. Not sure how I gave that impression. They are challenging authorities to demonstrate their commitment to the common good. Violence (even very mild violence) against peaceful people is unequivocally wrong unless they're doing something that might directly harm others.. like blocking an emergency vehicle route or something.
It also puts pressure on politicians to do the right thing.
Right now, against this government, we don't know how effective protests will be in the end. We don't know if military officers will remain loyal to the constitution and state leadership tover the orders of the dictator in chief.
There are too many unknowns and it's far too early to be giving up on a non-violent solution.
Well, to come clean, you're talking to an American who saw all this coming (in the broad strokes) five years ago and decamped to the UK for the long haul.
My view since then has been that after justice Ginsberg died in office, enough dominoes fell to make the fall of empire - one way or another, peacefully or otherwise - all but inevitable. Not that I put all of that on her, but it was a little selfish not to step down while a friendly administration could find a good replacement...
You're right that this administration sees protests the way a dictator does - if small, a pleasant invitation to violent reprisals, and if very large, inherently threatening. You're right in some things, but it's impossible to be narrowly coherent in a topic of this size so with apologies, you're getting a few paragraphs.
My broader view is that although the prior norms of the US government allowed for relative comfort domestically, they were built on the back of an economic and military empire abroad that was (still is) deeply disgraceful, and a return to form (even by peaceful protest) isn't very desirable given what it would require to accomplish.
In order to merely return to a horrible but comforting status quo, Americans would have to somehow defeat a would-be king, peacefully, while he controls a global empire whose violence would command the respect of any Mongol khan, who also has the blessing of a class of moneyed elites whose economic inequality puts the ancien régime into the shade. And you're thinking Americans will accomplish this? You flatterer.
If I had my druthers, we'd have a peaceful* revolution that dismantled the old system entirely, and quickly (quickly as hell given the geopolitical spinning plates we're holding) reform into something more akin to an EU with way less centralised power, hopefully a smaller military budget overall, and a shitload fewer billionaires.
*Without much if any factionalized armed conflict, per se. A nonviolent revolution does require that violence be available upon request.
The reason I left is that I don't see this level of general solidarity or awareness among my people. I think a different flavour of empire collapse is far likelier, and I've got people to protect now, or I'd probably still be there taking a flying fuck at the Nazis. I left my guns with sensible folk and left, instead.
So there's my whole deal. We're not likely to get it, but at least it's something worth wanting in the first place. I have to hope that merely imagining a future worth having is in some way contributing to the common endeavour. And I hope that by being more expansive we can understand one another better, or leastways bicker more productively.
Well said yeah. There are definitely some nuances in the way to defend yourself in a country where everyone is armed to the teeth, and a whole lot of cynicism given the circumstances. My words are aspirational at best, I get that. In reality, I'm saying what I'm saying because I share your concerns for your people.
Laudable. Would be interested to know what country you're in/from - if only for the context of what cultural lens you're seeing this in.
New Zealand.
We're currently enjoying a right wing government with a few Trump inspired figures, skyrocketing cost of living, rising crime, and very disconcerting xenophobic and quasi racist musings coming out of certain public figures. But blissfully and blessedly we're a long way away from the chaos your brothers and sisters are going through now and the hell that may be soon to come.
The fear is the global world order falling apart may not be long in following.
Yeah. My whole life it's felt like I showed up at the end of the party. The older I get, the more I realise what a mess was made.
It's not what we want, it's whats happening.
Normal stable countries don't have states that float the idea of stopping funding to the federal government, consider suspending habeas corpus to make arresting people easier, and deport non-whites en masse to concentration camps.
Sticking your head in the sand and complying in advance doesn't work because it assumes governments have a conscience that will learn from mistakes and guilt. It even considers this is a mistake. This is entirely on purpose.
This is illustrative of your whole problem over there though - the solution to crap government is better government, not regression to fuedalism. Peaceful protest is not "sticking your head in the sand" - it's putting yourself in real danger given what Trump and the federal military are currently doing. But everyone standing across the line with a gun in their hand is a human being. The moment you arm the mob, the military has a mandate to engage and they will be far less sympathetic to the plight of the citizenry. Armed resistance, or any kind of violent resistance whatsoever, should be the absolute last resort.
Armed resistance, or any kind of violent resistance whatsoever, should be the absolute last resort.
I don't think anyone here is arguing against this, we're just saying it's time to be prepared for if that time comes because we won't be given advanced notice.
We have a government controlled by people dedicated to consolidating their power and ensuring they won't be opposed. Unidentifiable armed thugs are grabbing people off the street and shipping them to torture camps.
I sincerely hope this can be resolved peacefully, but the reality of the situation is we have to be prepared for if it can't be.
Obviously don't fire the first shot; but if they do, it needs to be met with a shot back.
Obviously don't fire the first shot; but if they do, it needs to be met with a shot back.
By whom and in what context?
Relying on their sympathy, and the hope to replace them with a better government without using force, are absolute folly. They're fascists; making those things not forthcoming is like their whole schtick. Small arms won't defeat them in battle, but guns can make occupation almost infinitely more costly for fascists to maintain compared to willful docility
Are you really saying US citizens matyring themselves by provoking armed crackdowns by the military is more reliable than peaceful protest? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying.
There is no "battle" right now. There is no civil war yet. What you're saying is the kind of behavior that will start it.
What you're saying is the kind of behavior that results in Nazi Germany and extermination camps. At this point I can only assume you're trying to goad non-fascists into bannable speech
I'm saying you armed Joe citizen can't win an armed conflict against the military. That's all.
Victory worth having has to be won through peaceful civil disobedience, or there's a very good chance a lot of people will die for nothing.
I'd like to hear arguments to the contrary, but so far it's crickets.
They are being shot at. Injuries requiring hospitalization with a chance for permanent disability isn't "performative." I can hope but can not trust enough people remain in the police and national guard who are willing to prevent escalation.
Source 1 of many: https://abc7.com/post/protester-marshall-woodruff-shot-eye-rubber-bullet-during-no-kings-day-rally-downtown-los-angeles-saturday/16768659/
As to civil war, I lived in a place where multiple people were hopeful for civil war to start and another place where my high school teacher joked on Facebook about open season on liberals and needing bodybags. I feel a need to prepare for the scum around me, since several are already impersonating ICE officers or killing people.
I have no concerns about defending yourself in your own home or even your neighborhood if it comes to door to door mob on mob like that.
Pushing it to that point is the most likely way to get the military to fracture. Which is the only realistic way to win this by force. Not saying force is the only way, but if it is the way, you need to force a split.
If they open fire on unarmed civilians fracture is much more likely than if they open fire on an armed milita. I'm just looking to encourage avoiding giving the authoritarian side any excuse to claim the higher ground.
None American here, but I believe the most important right you Americans have, beside the right to free speech and vote, is the right to bear arms.
Not many other countries have that.
Cant believe one day I actually say that, but the 2nd Ammendment is so important. And yes, I am also anti gun and pro gun control.
Still, the situation is getting so fucked up I think it is better to arm and protect yourselves.
Weren't they supposed to use these guns against threats to their democracy, from within and without? I can't see any other more applicable scenario.