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Not just fascists, also those who empower fascists by sitting on their lazy ignorant smug asses on Election Day, bOtH pArTiEs ArE tHe SaMe LoL aMiRiTe, who want some sort of collapse to happen... because they fancy themselves at the top of their imagined new "purity" food chain, I mean... look at their purity! Aren't they so special and so above it all?
They read things! On the internet! Wow!
They reject anything that doesn't fit their narrative. They LOVE having their hollow ego massaged in circlejerks and by bad-faith actors.God forbid anything less than perfect and pure crosses their medieval path, lest they feel offended and... oh yeah, they do nothing. Which is why we're in this goddamned mess in the first place. They allowed racist, misogynistic fascism to take firm root, good luck weeding it out now.
This smug denialism is what got us Trump the first time around and it's what got us Trump the second time as well. At least the guy acknowledges there's a problem (even though his solutions are designed to make it worse). The Dems piss on your leg and tell you it's raining. They dropped the ball by trying to play diet republican, and losing the election is on them.
Both -parties- ARE equally terrible. They are all in on and define the bullshit system and both are 100% two halves of the same problem.
TRUMP is a different story though. For one thing he is no more a Republican than he is a Democrat he is there to do whatever he thinks is best for him and that is it. He makes any Democrat I have ever seen look amazing in comparison. I generally vote Independent and even swore years ago that I would never vote for a D or R again without some insane change to something and I do still refuse to support either shit ass party in general. Trump is a different story though, he made me vote for a Democrat for the first time in my life. Even the normal terrible D and R bullshit looks amazing when you are watching Trump destroy the country.
Note that there are good politicians who stand out from the actual party on both sides. I would vote for some if they made it to the election just for the fact that they have a cause and a vision to help people and even if I don't like the means it is sure a hell of a lot better than the current state of affairs.
Fascists are not empowered by political apathy. If that were the case, you'd be able to provide evidence that states or nations with low voter turnout always turn fascist. 80% of voters turned out in 1932 when the Nazis became the most powerful party. Political apathy can be a result of burgeoning fascism - among other things. How do you think fascism arose in Germany? People being lazy?
Chalking up fascism to poltical apathy is what happens when you fail to look at fascism as a function of class dynamics and class conflict - and furthermore, fail to see the generations-old pattern of regulatory agencies being captured, special interests dominating political commentary, rampant lobbying, decaying education, wages being suppressed, healthcare being denied, transportation services rendered useless, etc...
If, at the end of this devolution into fascism, your only takeaway is "Damn lazy tankies and russian spies destroyed America!", then you haven't learned your lesson, and you've fallen in perfect lockstep with your liberal forerunners who made the exact same mistakes.
It's telling that you folks never engage when leftists point out that when the democrats had a choice between slowing fascism and committing genocide on Palestinians, they chose to do genocide all for sweet AIPAC dollars.
The simple fact is that Biden's and Kamala's constituents wanted an end to genocide. Biden and Kamala ignored these constituents. Biden and Kamala lost. That couldn't be a more democratic outcome; it's more American than Apple pie. If you say "fuck you" to your constituents, it's a safe bet you'll lose them, and if this is a calculus that some dumb ass like me can make, you know that higher levels of democratic leadership were aware of the risks and chose to take them anyway. The democrats are controlled opposition.
If you are a liberal reading this thread and are starting to see holes pop up in the logic and reasoning of your colleagues, or have correctly identified that the liberals are ill-equipped to deal with this devolution, I'd encourage you to learn what Marxism really is - beyond the spark notes you got from your conservative history teacher in high school.
This was really shown when Cory Booker was shouting for 25 hrs about "This is not moral.. We fight corruption.. We dont have money for healthcare and education... We dont have money for our veterans " the next morning he passes $9Billion aid to Israel because AIPAC gave him $900,000
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/04/05/donh-a05.html
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S
Morality and corruption my ass. Cory Booker is a hypocrite spinless clown who does not stand for shit. You give him money and he will dance a circus just like he is paid to.
Fascists are not empowered by political apathy
Fascists are empowered by political apathy in a first past the post election system. Which we have.
And its not just tankies. You guys are an influence but you aren't the sole driver of this result of low turnout obviously.
This is something many clownishly-apolitical individuals that aren't tankies understand and still choose not to vote because they also, like tankies, think both parties are the same but for more low brow selfish small minded reasons. I live in a deeply rural area and commute to a small city and I've encountered these morons first hand in both places. Typically these are poorly educated impoverished people who feel left behind by perceived elites (not just rich people but basically any people smart enough to work low paying white collar like myself). Who don't realize they're letting things get worse for them and now will end up materially worse off and even some of them will end up dead as a result.
And in so far that a person can deserve their own misfortune, they will. Because they either know or very much ought to know what was at stake and did not give a fuck.
I actually think most tankies will be fine though. You guys are educated enough that you're probably not on average nearly as impoverished as these types. It'll just be the dipshit apolitical underclass of people who will start feeling things get noticeably worse.
Maybe it wont be too late for them to be moved by their impending suffering and react to it in a productive way but at this point I'm kind of over it. I'm ambivalent at this point.
"I didn't vote for the lady who wouldn't commit to stopping Israel (but I knew wouldn't shred the economy)
even though the alternative was a man very openly supportive of Israel and is now actively deporting pro-Palestine protesters and providing Israel all the weapons it needs
'Cuz obviously both parties are the same"
Quite frankly, I have no respect for anyone who took this position. Whether influenced by propaganda or.. whatever.. I honestly don't know how you can say you didn't see what a threat Trump would be (not you personally), especially in retrospect.
I'm again going to push back and say that a massive propaganda campaign, similar to 2016, is what won them the election. Crypto dumped $146 million into he election. Elon personally put something like $250 million in, AND did the "raffles" to get people to vote (not raffles, it was a lie, admitted in court)... AND he openly used Twitter to influence the election. Zuck is in with the same guys that Musk is -- Thiel, etc (I say "in" loosely for Musk) and if you don't think they also used FB you're a fool.
But propaganda isn't an excuse, because it requires some lack of not intentionally trying to expose yourself to new & different sources of news, but more importantly, different perspectives. And a complete detachment or ignorance from Trump's first presidency.
MAGA was always a traitor party.
You're correct, but in the end those same tankies are also the ones that want a fascist state because they're basically a capitalist state on the brink of collapse – a good ground for revolution that tankies wish for.
This would not have happened if democrats had true back bone and a moral structure beyond being the slightly less insane alternative to republicans, until now, where republicans have shifted to radicalism, either knowing that democrats don't have much fight or allying internally with democrats, allowing for this take over to start from the roots and corrupt it way down the chain
This was inevitable with the system USA is built on top of, you only deny the inevitable by 4-8 years if democrats had won, preserving the status quo and begrudgingly agreeing to public protests to not suffer what essentially happened now. Which they failed, because they were begrudgingly doing so.
You’re correct, but in the end those same tankies are also the ones that want a fascist state because they’re basically a capitalist state on the brink of collapse – a good ground for revolution that tankies wish for.
This is the dumbest shit ever and not what we believe. Y'all don't ever listen to the things we actually say, you just make shit up and repeat it to each other until it becomes accepted as obviously true, regardless of any basis in reality.
A fascist state is not "good ground for revolution." There have been many far-right states that have successfully hunted down and exterminated the left and survived for quite a long while. And the conditions in the US are such that in an armed conflict the right would obviously have a major advantage. Should conditions decline, it's far more likely that we'd have a right-wing revolution than a left-wing one.
The problem is that conditions are declining under both Republicans and Democrats. Neither party offers any possibility of actually halting or reversing the decline, or averting any of the many, many crises, some of which are looming and some of which are actively happening. Liberals are fully content to accept this state of affairs for some reason - they just want a more gradual decline which will still lead to crises, the far-right gaining strength and power, and the complete extermination of the left and vulnerable populations. As long as that gets pushed back 5 or 10 years, perfectly acceptable to them, and worth sacrificing any attempts to actually fix the problems - which is what us "tankies" would prefer to happen.
If I were an "accelerationist," looking to bring about a fascist state on the bizarre logic that it would somehow be "good ground" for a left-wing revolution, then why would I have a problem with either side? Conditions will continue to decline regardless of whether a Democrat or Republican is in charge. What, am I just so impatient that I couldn't wait a few more years? If that's what I believed, I'd just disengage from politics and not give a shit what happens, confident in the fact that the inevitable decline will bring about socialism, somehow. Doesn't really seem worth the effort.
Unfortunately, this "accelerationist" concept doesn't actually track with history. People have lived - and do, currently live in much, much worse conditions than we have in the US, often for generations. Slavery persisted for centuries, and yes there were slave revolts but they were often disorganized and put down. This idea that bad conditions automatically create successful left-wing revolutions makes no sense to anyone who's actually capable of thinking beyond a meme level.
can you humor me as to answer these questions
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Do you support the 50501 movement?
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What is the general consensus in Lemmygrad/Hexbear on the actions taken by the liberals in rallies held by Sanders and AOC?
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Do you consider ending support for Israel to be step 1 for preventing the far right take over?
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Do you believe it is necessary for the EU to end their support to Ukraine, which you consider to be a US funded puppet state formed out of a coup, and make new deals with Russia against the US to combat rising fascism?
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What could be a possible path forward for the world to take, not for revolution but to quell far right ideology?
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Do you believe that EU is an obstacle for Revolution, or do you believe a similar system to EU without a neo-liberal platform to be ideal?
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Would you like to add on more about Tankies/Authleft that is generally misunderstood
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Would you like to talk about anything relevant about the previous questions that I missed, and is important to understanding the picture?
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Lol what a weak manifesto.
The Dems are not one party, but factions. There are legit opposition members, but the party is controlled by the captured opposition faction. Their job was to give the illusion of choice and legitimate democracy while playing stupid as the fascists eroded all your rights. They never undid the harm republicans brought in even when they could.
Legitimate dems were only permitted to give an aire of legitimacy to the whole dog and pony show. Yes voting matters, but the real battle was lost in the candidate selection within the DNC, where only the captured opposition are allowed to dominate.
Oh yeah, they're all over Lemmy.
They will cheer on revolution, but not a single one of them would ever dream of making the first move.
Their whole deal is picking up pet causes and then making snarky remarks from the sidelines.
Nailed it.
"Not just fascists, but also those who oppose fascism and are trying to build an alternative to fascism" got it.
Lol its so cute that that's what you think you're doing 😂
lol y'all are over the circle jerking authoritarian states but yeah sure tell me more about what you're doing to oppose facism in your daily life
They allowed racist, misogynistic fascism to take firm root, good luck weeding it out now.
was that in the progressive era, when eugenics and fascism were the rage? the usa is fascist, and has been for all of living memory. blue-colored or red-colored isn't less fascism.
One side is less facism than the other. Do you think the shitlibs would be juicing up ice like the trump admin?
obama ran on the famous deportation mantra si se puedes, and ran out of bombs killing brown people. just because you're concerned about one facet, doesn't make it less fascist
Preach 🙌🏽
I think those are 50/50 ego-stroking faux-intellectuals & conservative trolls.