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I definitely think Apple and Samsung can do a smaller premium phone if they want to as Apple makes the lion's share of profits in the industry and Samsung is the only other manufacturer that makes a significant amount of profit. Heck Samsung can probably do a smaller midrange phone as well. I do not think it makes sense for other manufacturers as they make 3% profit and targeting a very vocal but demanding minority isn't going to help them improve that.
Small phone users should also temper their expectation, I saw a lot of comments from people saying they didn't get the iPhone mini because they expected the Pro Max's specs in the mini form factor. They have to understand that the cameras on the biggest flagships occupy a lot of space and it isn't feasible to bring it to a smaller form factor. Increasing the thickness might help with the battery but that's about the only component that benefits with an increase in one dimension.
They have to understand that the cameras on the biggest flagships occupy a lot of space and it isn't feasible to bring it to a smaller form factor.
Not... Really... Sure it makes some difference, but the much more constraining factor is the money. Cameras arent that big, but they're one of the priciest pieces of hardware in the device.
The problem is more that they keep trying to sell small phones at cheaper price points. So they end up with much worse screens, socs, and cameras so they perform like shit. People don't want a small phone because they don't care about their phone. People want small phones because the standard size is fucking huge. They need to make a high-ish tier small phone instead of low tier small phone that performs like the 50 Walmart shit.
Not... Really... Sure it makes some difference, but the much more constraining factor is the money. Cameras arent that big, but they're one of the priciest pieces of hardware in the device.
There's isn't enough physical space for three sensors on a smaller phone especially if it's the size of the iPhone mini. They can fit them on a 6.1-6.2 inch device, that's why the S24 and iPhone 15 Pro have them. However the 16 Pro is supposedly getting larger because it's getting a larger sensor for 5x optical zoom. If you look at a periscope lens, it needs a substantial amount of extra width as well. A teardown of any recent flagship reveals that camera modules occupy more space than they did if you look at tearsowns from three or four years back. This makes sense because the sensor itself is increasing in size and the size needs to go up both length and width wise to maintain the aspect ratio of the sensor. Heck in some cases like the Xiaomi 14 Ultra and Oppo Find X7 Ultra, the camera modules occupy more space than the rest of the motherboard.
The problem is more that they keep trying to sell small phones at cheaper price points.
The iPhone mini was cheaper but it had pretty much the same specs as the regular iPhone except for wireless charging speed iirc. Sales were much lower than the regular model despite that (around or less than 5% of total iPhone 12 and 13 sales). If Apple couldn't make a smaller phone sell particularly well, I doubt anyone else could.
There's isn't enough physical space for three sensors on a smaller phone especially if it's the size of the iPhone mini
I wouldn't go as far as to claim that "more cameras" is the complaints being made here. Sure, telephotos make sense as things that take up more space. But most people are using them for like 1 in 50 shots or something. I have an extremely hard time believing that someone would genuinely notice the difference unless they're an extreme case or they've been told the other ones are better. Within reasonable effective focal lengths, these are pretty negligible in the sizes we're talking about.
If Apple couldn't make a smaller phone sell particularly well, I doubt anyone else could.
I hard disagree with this. Apple is literally the worst company to try to make this shit work. Apple's core selling point is the status symbol of it all. People trying to show off having the flashiest phone are not going to buy a product being touted as a half baked smaller and cheaper version of something else. Their entire marketing was about it being mini. Apple customers are not the core audience for something like this, and Apple marketed it as exactly what people disliked about small phones.
around or less than 5% of total iPhone 12 and 13 sales
I find it more surprising that this was below expectations than I do that only 5% of people bought a smaller phone. I doubt much more than 1 in 20 people really is after a smaller phone. I'm sure they exist, but based on the people I know and the number of people I've heard interested in smaller phones, I'd estimate it more like 1 in 20 to 1 in 40. It's not for most people by any means. But 1 in 20 is still a decent number of people.
First of all sorry for the delayed reply but i only got the notification a few hours back for some reason.
I wouldn't go as far as to claim that "more cameras" is the complaints being made here.
It is one of the most common complaints cited against buying a smaller phone especially in tech enthusiast circles. Some people say they ended up getting the bigger phone because it had better cameras or the presence of the telephoto was enough.
I hard disagree with this. Apple is literally the worst company to try to make this shit work.
We'll have to disagree. Apple have been one of the best at maintaining equality between a larger phone and a smaller phone in recent times since they manufacture phones in enough volume to actually care about miniaturizing components. The minis had feature parity with the regular iPhones of that year. The Pros are larger but they've maintained feature parity with the Pro Max in most instances except for the 12 Pro/12 Pro Max and 15 Pro/15 Pro Max. Even with those two instances the only difference was in the cameras. I'll acknowledge there's no fair comparison with Google or Samsung but that's only because they don't make a smaller Pro/Ultra phone. Even if they did, I'm fairly sure the cameras would be different.
1 in 20 is still a decent number of people.
In the volumes Apple sells, that probably equates to a couple of million units. 5% would not be a very attractive proposition for other manufacturers since they'd need to increase profit margins to actually make money from making a smaller phone as they deal with much smaller volumes.
The S23 and S24 are solid phones at a regular size. So Samsung already do normal sized flagships. It's the mid-low range that is lacking, they are all oversized in that price range, so people don't have much choice but to buy an oversized phone.
Yeah they're regular sized, you could consider the iPhone 15 and 15 Pro as regular sized as well. I think they could probably do a smaller phone about the size of the iPhone 12/13 mini as well if they wanted to. However I'm not sure if they'll do it since the S22 is their smallest phones since the S10e and they haven't gone smaller than that unless you go all the way back to the S4 (which itself has a similar width to the S10e). I understand why they wouldn't do it because it seems the people who want an iPhone 5S to iPhone mini sized phone are extremely vocal but that doesn't seem to translate to numbers in real life.
People would probably buy smaller phones if given the correct choices, I think the iPhone 15 size is good yeah. iPhone is often a fashion statement, so people usually want the highest end they can get and manufacturers tend to put more features in their bigger more expensive models.
There's no options in the mid-range for smaller phones, most are over 6.5 inches. So people are forced into buying them, there's definitely a large market for small phones, but manufacturers force them into larger models. I suspect they are easier/cheaper to make, so that's what we get. Also bigger numbers = better right, so they'd rather crank the marketing on battery, screen etc.
I don't think they're going to be able to put the same cameras on a smaller phone, especially if you look at something like the Xiaomi 14 Ultra or the Oppo Find X7 Ultra. The sensors are massive and require a lot of space. You may be able to fit two of those sensors on a 6.1 inch phone without compromising on other things like the battery, haptics, antennae for example. They could probably fit a bigger battery by making the phone thicker but it seems like manufacturers like a uniform thickness for most of their models or somewhere thereabouts probably because it's easier to machine the frame.
Of course there's some limitations yeah, though the S24 and iPhone 15 have great cameras, more than enough for the majority of people. Most people aren't power users and won't even look at specs in-depth, just a glance at what it looks like, storage and price. Size would definitely be a factor people would consider (and already do when they can) and it's a real shame there aren't more options.
To be honest looking at the teardowns it's impressive what Apple and Samsung have managed to fit in their phones, I think the Xiamoi 14 Ultra isn't doing itself any favours with that camera placement though, seems inefficient having the modules in the middle of the phone?
I'm not a fan of the cameras on the S24 and base iPhone 15. Samsung have recycled the same cameras for three generations now, I think they can put a larger primary sensor in there.
To be honest looking at the teardowns it's impressive what Apple and Samsung have managed to fit in their phones, I think the Xiamoi 14 Ultra isn't doing itself any favours with that camera placement though, seems inefficient having the modules in the middle of the phone?
Idk, Apple does a better job with the Pro as compared to the regular model. Google, Xiaomi and Asus managed to fit bigger batteries on the Pixel 8, Xiaomi 14 and Zenfone 10 without increasing the size too much. Here's a teardown of the Xiaomi 14 Ultra. It seems like they're using space pretty efficiently in there.
Fair enough, but I think for most people the cameras are more than enough. I haven't used the iPhone ones but the Samsung ones are honestly fantastic already. It's diminishing returns past that point, like it's buying an actual camera territory.
It feels like with the cameras in the middle, they have to have smaller PCB area around them? Whereas if they are to the side, there's a larger space for a PCB. I don't know though, I think the phone is ugly anyway.
Yeah that's a fair point. I don't like the output of the primary sensor and the 3x on the S24. Feels like they oversharpen and oversaturate colours way too much. Also feel the hardware is lacking compared to the Pixel 8 and iPhone 15 Pro's sensor as they're physically bigger and don't have as much of a problem with shutter lag.
Yeah I agree, there's always room for improvement, but if having smaller phones means sacrificing on camera a bit I don't mind personally. Samsung probably should have upgraded sensors, but I guess they share the same "its good enough" sentiment I have about that. I'd trade an entire sensor for a micro SD card slot and a 3.5mm port!
Small phone users should also temper their expectation
Every time there is a small phone thread here or on reddit most of the comments are from people complaining that there is no small phone with the equivalent features of their near 7-inch flagship. People do not seem to weigh size in the same way as other features and are not willing to make compromises for it. Small phone fans need to think seriously about how important and practical all their supposedly "essential" high end features actually are versus physical size. There have been plenty of chances to buy and own smaller phones in the past and these people didn't buy them because they weren't perfect. This is the result.
Yeah it's strange some of them expect the exact same specs as the Pro or Ultra phone in a smaller form factor. Some sacrifices have to be made to fit components in a smaller form factor as you cannot overcome the laws of physics. I've seen many ridiculous comments saying manufacturers can fit the same cameras and all the sensors along with a bigger battery if they made the phone thicker. It's almost as if they expect the bigger phone to get neutered to maintain parity.