Israeli official says Gaza will be "entirely destroyed," Palestinians "will start to leave in great numbers"
Israeli official says Gaza will be "entirely destroyed," Palestinians "will start to leave in great numbers"
Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich says victory in Gaza will mean the enclave being "entirely destroyed," Palestinians leaving for other countries.
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To all those who stood up against "Genocide Joe":
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
Know that your internet slacktivism has made a lasting difference in the world, and the JIDF thanks you for your service.
You and everyone who repeats the “I hope you’re happy now” really are not helping. You’re mad, I’m mad, but please please get your fill of catharsis/smug self righteousness elsewhere please, blaming non/voters isn’t going to rebuild the Obama coalition that delivered a supermajority in Congress. The Democrats lost the youth turnout, Palestine (Russian/astroturf bots or no) were not the sole factor but a sharp tipping point that laid out reality bare.
Im not at all surprised that young voters who became politically aware during the Obama era or later were gradually disenchanted and sat this round out; when you look at it from their timeline they did all the right democracy things and got shit on over and over
- Organic enthusiasm for Bernie in the primary, sabotaged by superdelegates - your vote doesn’t matter, we pick not you plebs and in their mind that action brought Trump 2016
- George Floyd’s livestreamed murder and BLM protests - no structural change or even federal police reform passed
- The kids yet again come out and do the right thing by voting Biden in 2020, and watch more politicking and focus-tested soft liberalism rule the day. Rail strike busted. East Palestine spill without serious investigation or reform. Debt ceiling negotiations and kowtowing - everything will stay the same
- Oct 7 happens, then the Israeli bombing campaign begins and Biden openly castigates activists and doubles down on supplying the IDF - how dare you plebs question your leader
- Protests persist, organize and clearly make their demands known, even send a warning shot in the primary… receiving only empty words from leadership - they are not going to do what you want
- The DNC platforms two Jewish parents of a Hamas hostage at the convention, but refuses to allow a Dem Rep to speak with pre-vetted remarks - we don’t even want to hear from you
And nothing substantial happened that might change their mind. Kamala rode that same trajectory through her campaign, even as VP she had a harder stance on Israel that suddenly evaporated once she was appointed the nominee.
Its genocide - the crime of all crimes - and the Democratic Party refused to seriously discuss the topic in public. I cannot seriously blame them for giving up on a party that refused to listen to them in good faith, and disappointed them time after time. That’s on the DNC for throwing that demographic away, and we need to recognize that. They’re not voting for Republicans ffs but they’ve received the message that they and their vote, isn’t important to the Democrats.
Absolutely this.
Anyone denying the clear signals of despair from young voters is coping. Idk why anyone is getting mad at people demanding progress from dems at a time when there's no risk of electoral losses - makes me think those people are actually just carrying water for ani-reform neoliberal fascists.
Genocide is the ultimate crime huh?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izium_mass_graves
Or the genocide starting in America of people with skin the same color as I have.
It's Trump, no matter who the dems put up you weren't voting for them, you were voting against a rapist, pedophile traitor.
Genocide is the ultimate crime huh?
Fucking yes. I cannot believe we’re even having this argument. Nothing comes close.
Or the genocide starting in America of people with skin the same color as I have
I am absolutely not trying to downplay the barbarity and wanton cruelty of the Trump administration’s policies, but what we’ve seen so far doesn’t match the definition. Extrajudicial disappearances and zero due process for perceived or actual migrants is not the same thing as genocide. There’s no forced sterilization, rote murder, mass displacement, or deliberate attempt to destroy a collective people. CECOT is an overseas concentration camp, not a death camp - yet.
...
Dodged right around the mass graves?
The kidnapped children?
The destruction of culture through russification?
I don't quite understand your argument here, all of those crimes fall under the umbrella term of genocide as well.
Yet the only 'genocide' lemmy will talk about is palestine.
? I've seen plenty of talk about the situation in Ukraine, Sudan and Kenia. Maybe your instance doesn't federate with the instances where those discussions happen?
Palestine is a notable one because it's perpetrated by our "ally" and it's also very high in civilian casualties. And I really don't say that to minimise any of the other atrocities going on.
I've seen a lot of mentions of other genocides on my instance, but what's notable about the Palestinian genocide is that the US and the western world is directly involved in it.
Typically when I see this complaint it's paired with a general vibe of wanting to deflect attention away from western atrocities. Not that I know enough to accuse you of that, but still.
So:
- Don't really care about Palestine or Palestinians.
Maybe I should, I just only met a few and they all seemed like dicks, plus this was kind of kicked off by Oct 7.
- Ukraine isn't about Ukraine, it's about Ukraine, Georgia, the baltics, and honestly the peace of Europe.
When Europe got unpeaceful in the past bad shit happened, I don't want more bad shit.
Lol, well, uh... then fuck you?
Jesus christ. Maybe i don't care about Ukrainians or Europeans because they were mean to me once? If you think the genocide in Gaza doesn't 100% have the risk of spreading through the Middle east and into Europe, too, I don't think you're worth the time. And anyway, those weren't the genocides I was referring to.
Feels a little like you just don't like Arabs or Muslims.
That's a lot of words for you to say your sympathy is contingent on skin color.
The thread's about netanyahu's genocide, so his supporters are trying to deflect.
Dude. I can name from memory the list of war crimes and genocidal acts that Russia has done, they’re on a speed run in their aggressive war of conquest. Bucha, Mariupol, perferdy, executing PoWs, torture, the kidnapped children being raised as Russian, deliberate bombing of civilians, Russification of the Donbas, chemical weapons use, the list goes on.
But the severity is not the same. Gazans can’t seek safety in western Ukraine, they have no missile defenses, they’re being deliberately starved to death as collective punishment, and are being kept inside a war zone by complete military encirclement and occupation.
Maybe people wouldn't call him "Genocide Joe" if he hadn't backed a genocide. I always find it amazing that people blame the voters, instead of blaming the people with the power, the platform, and the money, who chose genocide over winning the election.
I always find it amazing that people blame the voters
I think people are blaming the people who didn't vote. They thought they were sending the message "I don't like genocide", but that was ignorant of them.
The message they sent was "Eh, either is fine. I'm fine with Trump or Harris. Whatever". And then they took the moral high ground for doing so.
Which I also find understandable. I disagree with non-voters, but if both choices are terrible, and fight against what you want, I understand why people wouldn't want to vote.
The proper way to communicate an opinion that "both choices are terrible" is to make your way to the polling station and either vote for something other than those two bad choices, or to decline or spoil your ballot.
Not voting says "I can't be bothered to make the effort; anything is fine".
People think it means "Give me something other than these two", but it takes more effort to communicate that message.
Political activism requires effort, and it requires effort the right way. Not voting is political inaction.
I mostly agree with you, which is why I voted 3rd party, and I still recommend that others vote. But voting can take a lot of time and effort, which most people are short on. I think a lot of people would vote, if they thought their vote counted, but with the two major parties we have, it clearly doesn't.
I see it as less of "I can't be bothered to make the effort; anything is fine", and more of "Both of you fight against what I want, why would I bother"
why would I bother
Because voting is one of the least effortful political action that can be taken, and it can send one of the biggest messages.
Democratically-elected politicians get their jobs by people's votes. Their campaigns are based around getting votes. And they can look at numbers of how people are voting to adjust their platforms to capture those votes.
There's little benefit for them to try to capture the votes of people who don't vote because people who don't vote aren't likely to vote.
- 77,302,580 people voted for Trump.
- 89,278,948 people were eligible to vote but didn't.
That's enough to win an election. I know they wouldn't all vote the same way, but that's a HUGE population -- enough to potentially make a third political party relevant, for instance.
I know that you vote, and I know both major parties in the US suck. I think we're generally in agreement here, so I know I'm probably preaching to a member of the choir. I'm just less sympathetic about it because I know that if everyone in the US who was eligible to vote but didn't all voted with their intentions, upcoming elections would look very different. And I think it's a combination of learned helplessness/defeatism and laziness/apathy that's causing this.
As such, I will always advocate for the power of voting. And I will always admonish people who don't vote and complain about the result.
Yup, we are mostly in agreement. I will push back on this though:
Because voting is one of the least effortful political action that can be taken
For a lot of people, taking a day off work, to spend hours in line at a polling booth, while voter intimidation is kind of allowed, is a lot of effort. Especially when you factor in that they need to spend time researching the candidates and issues they'll be voting on. I've lived in places where even getting registered was a huge pain, and took a lot of time. Where I currently live, voting is super easy, and I appreciate that, and I think it's less of an excuse. But for a lot of people, it does take a lot of effort, and I find not voting in those circumstances more understandable.
But for a lot of people, it does take a lot of effort, and I find not voting in those circumstances more understandable.
There is a long way to go in some places to make voting more accessible, approachable, and available, yes.
I think that other political actions tend to take more effort and more work, or they tend to be less widely impactful.
Complaining online and sharing memes, for example, is easy, but does next to nothing.
Calling your local official or writing an email/letter to them can change local politics, but just like voting can be harder or easier depending on where you live, getting your message to go somewhere other than their garbage bin can take a lot of time and effort... probably more than voting. And even there, that's only one politician you've influenced.
Larger political actions that are stronger than voting definitely exist, but I think the majority of them come with greater risk, more effort, or a larger time investment (like protests, running for local office, etc).
Voting sends a message to politicians nationwide, if not just statewide. And like I mentioned elsewhere, there's little incentive for politicians to take the opinions of non-voters seriously.
I understand why some people kill their families and then kill themselves.
I’ll still put forth that it’s bad, destructive, and wrong.
Bad analogies are bad
Biden supported Israel and did nothing to stop this.
Kamala as VP and nominee, supported Israel and did nothing to stop this.
Now Trump supports Israel and is doing nothing to stop this.
OMG, they're perspectives are so different on this topic!!1! 😱 😱
What a joke. At the start of this genocide in late 2023 Blinken was floating the idea of "evacuating" the population of Gaza into Sinai. He distanced himself when it was clear Mahmoud Abbas would not agree to it.
There was a recent report that In 15 months Biden did precisely nothing to pressure Israel into a ceasefire to the extent that the Israelis "thanked god" for having such an obsequious President.
https://israelpalestinenews.org/biden-officials-admit-they-never-pressured-israel-for-ceasefire/
He did however give them everything they needed for the extermination campaign and blocked every Security Council resolution.
He also set the stage for demonising students. 4 university heads were removed for tolerating Palestine protestors.
The only difference between Trump and Biden with respect to the genocide is that Trump isnt hiding behind crocodile tears.
Stop trying to memory hole Biden. We haven't forgotten.
Honestly, who the hell cares.
Americans of every race made their choice in 2024 and there's no point in speculating what the losing party would have done.
The reality is what it is and we're under Trump now.
As long as those Americans understand what their vote was for and can live with it, that's what matters and I'm 100% okay with my vote and I can live with it.
I care.
More importantly, as a non-white American watching a genocide start at home, it very much matters who and what people voted (or didn't vote) for.
What really pisses me off is people saying democrats would have been just as bad, while we watch people drug off by thugs in black body armor to El Salvador to die without due process.
I think it's safe to speculate that that wouldn't have happened under the alternative.
I'm trying to understand where you are coming from. In the general elections, I voted for Harris and Clinton after voting against them in primaries. The thing about voting and elections is that there are hundreds of variables involved, and focusing on one to pin blame on a sliver of the electorate doesn't seem like thoughtful analysis or productive to an oppositional cause.
You can point to turnouts and results from specific counties until your finger dries up and falls off, but that only highlights a neglect regarding myriad other factors that contribute to results. My opinion is that the Harris campaign ran the race the way they thought best and they lost. They lost. Sure, in sense we all lost, but they were the ones driving the bus.
We aren't children without agency, they aren't singers on American idol.
They had policy manifestos, they were explicit about them.
And the voices screaming to ignore everything else and focus only on Palestine as the only variable that mattered, in unison, with almost perfect resonance with Russian troll farms (curious given Russia's close ties with both Iran and hamas in the lead up to october 7, and their use of Gaza to distract the west from support for Ukraine).
We're being played like puppets, and nobody is willing to admit there are malicious actors at work who benefit.
Or.... It could be that people have lost faith in the Democratic party. Look at their current approval rating. Look at Biden's terrible presidency. Look at Biden and Harris' terible campaigns. Look at the issues and policies that they ran on. All of that pushed people away from them based on the polling.
It's easy to blame foreign influence, but it's more productive to figure out why the supposedly left party ran to the right, and alienated their voting base. Did the Russian try to influence the election? Of course, I'd be surprised if they didn't. But from what I saw, the Demcrats did more damage to themselves than the Russians could have hoped for.
No, your lying eyes must be russian psyops.
Yeah as a brown immigrant also in the US...get over it. This was inevitable; were just speedrunning it. I know you're hurting and want to expel that pain, but you really need to figure out how to channel it into something constructive instead of whining on the Internet.
Fuck that, I escaped the vile shit hole of the south, now I'm escaping to Europe.
I've lived everywhere, I can manage.
But, you see...
I'M NOT THE ONLY MOTHER FUCKER THIS IS HAPPENING TOO!!! AND MOST OF THE REST AREN'T SO FORTUNATE YOU THOUGHTLESS PRICK!!!
Oh no all caps! I'll never recover from this
I'm not sure how much better Democrats would have been with respect to Palestine, and I'm not going to speculate.
BUT I feel confident saying that the outcome for people in the U.S. would have been much better had the election gone differently.
I’m not sure how much better Democrats would have been with respect to Palestine
The principle difference is that they try to keep the quiet part quiet. Mainly by screaming abuse at anyone who has a problem with the quiet part.
jsyk, the majority of 'genocide joe' social media posts were right wing propaganda
I mean sure there were some that chose not to vote because of Gaza, but the number doesn't really make a difference in the final count.
More people abstained due to sexism honestly
I'm not sure thats true. Many people had legitimate concerns that Biden was backing a genocide. I've never seen any stats showing that they were right-wing posts. Plenty of left-wing people were mad about that as well.
Hillary won the popular vote when she ran. I think most people abstained because Harris was a terrible candidate, who ran on terrible policies that went against what the voter-base wanted.
'Genocide Joe' was an alt-right psyop designed to catch up progressives with distaste for the realities of middle eastern politics
Either you are naive to propaganda, or are actively spreading it
It doesn't really matter which is true though blocking you from my future lemmy experience serves to address both of your possible failings.
'Genocide Joe' was an alt-right psyop
this claim requires evidence. who, when, where?
I’m not sure thats true. Many people had legitimate concerns that Biden was backing a genocide.
No centrist believes this because no centrist can imagine opposing the genocide that remains the single policy any of them are actually willing to stand for.