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Every life matters, and the reason we cannot make progress is because people who think they are 'good' are shunning and actively casting away people with less than desirable traits.
Nazis suck, racists suck, bigots suck, but they weren't born that way. Their lived experience led them to the place they are in. How do you get them out? Practice what you are preaching: compassion.
Edit: this comment here explains my point better than my own https://ponder.cat/comment/1872062
Every life matters
You started from a faulty assumption. Nazi lives don't matter.
Did Abimael Guzman's life matter?
I have to look him up on Wikipedia, so he doesn't really matter to me. He's not a Nazi though, so maybe?
Sorry it's just the way it is with Nazis. The only good one is a dead one. Just accept it.
Guzman has the blood of Peruvian peasants on his hands.
Ok but we're talking about Nazis, and the principle stands.
No, you're missing an entire level here. Racists suck, bigots suck but Nazis? Nazis round up people and gas them to death and then stack the bodies in the dirt like cord wood. It's a different level.
Have compassion for Trump guys. He's having a rough go of it lately.
Nowhere in my comment was Trump mentioned. I don't like him either. The concept of hurt people hurt people still applies though
Hahahaha! No! Not with neo-nazis. Look with racists and bigots I'll agree, try compassion first. I've done that and for most racists and bigots I've confronted it has worked. I didn't change them to be a champion of minorities but usually I can convince someone to behave nicer. Neo-nazis on the other hand are not just regular racists and bigots who say terrible things but don't actually do anything. Neo-nazis are the extreme and if they're an adult regardless of their life experience they know what they're saying is wrong. So no, I have no compassion and will never have compassion for an adult who is a neo-nazi. Period.
I'm glad to see that the strategy of compassion has worked for you in some cases. It's a nuanced topic, but I firmly believe that if we want to be progressive & inclusive we need to adopt a mindset of 'no man left behind'.
Again, it's nuanced and it takes a lot of effort. Perhaps I am oversimplifying things too much, on the other hand, I think that we will not be better off by casting out anyone.
You have a big heart, and that's a good thing. I could not disagree with you more. 'No man left behind' is a noble code to live to but I think that following it to an absolute sense defeats it's purpose. 'No man left behind' to me means anybody on my team is never alone. The key is they have to be on my team and in this case everyone who isn't a nazi is on my team. Neo-nazis have made real threats against people who I'm on the same team with and I would be leaving them behind if I didn't oppose neo-nazis. If it comes to it, yeah Nazi lives don't matter.
I'm not saying hunt them down and kill them. I'm saying take the ones who have actually done terrible things, put them in prison. Tell them to either grow up and change, or stay behind bars until they're so insignificant that there's no need to hold them anymore or until they die naturally. Holding neo-nazis accountable shouldn't be controversial. If that requires taking their life I won't shed any tears, but that is absolutely a last resort.
Thanks for your insight. I should have made clearer in my original comment that me saying that all lives matter does not equate to 'Neo-nazi's should walk free'. If the life of you or a person you care about is in immediate danger, then obviously that threat needs to be dealt with accordingly. We actually agree on pretty much everything.
I think for me the difference for now is in the recognition that while we as a civilization seem to be heading towards big trouble, most of us privileged enough to sit and type comments on an online discussion forum are not in actual immediate physical danger. It is therefore useless to me to think about crossing the line of taking lives, either for me or by me.
All I wish for is that when it is all said and done, we can all focus on improving lives, instead of ruining them. There is a lot of work that needs to be done before that though...