UN says 800,000 people have fled Rafah as Israel kills dozens in Gaza
UN says 800,000 people have fled Rafah as Israel kills dozens in Gaza
Israel says it recovered remains of one captive while Hamas claims several attacks against Israeli troops across Gaza.
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I keep asking pro-Israel people here on Lemmy what the maximum number of children that they feel it is necessary to sacrifice in this war.
I get two answers, usually both together:
- Hamas is the one killing the children.
- If this was your country, you would kill lots of children too.
And they expect me to accept those answers as if they were true.
They're not really engaging with you, just like Israel isn't really interested in a dialogue about the situation. They just need you to think there's a civil dialogue being had so that we don't realize the need to stop them by force.
I keep asking pro-Israel people here on Lemmy what the maximum number of children that they feel it is necessary to sacrifice in this war.
You've got to see this from the Israeli perspective: An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids
This is quite literally how they see the world. Every child in Rafa is this child. Every adult is a terrorist cell leader. Every refugee is going to want revenge. Every survivor is going to join the next revolt.
Its the same logic American colonists used on First Nations people, as they carved their way westward. Its the logic Serbians used as they butchered their way through Bosnia. Its the logic American soldiers used in Hadditha and Kandahar. Children are just tiny future evil adults and killing them is right because they are incapable of doing anything but wrong.
You had me in the first half.
I'm neither pro-Israel nor pro-Hamas, but I believe the correct answer is "same as in every other war".
In other words, the maximum rate of Gazan casualties you will accept depends on the maximum rate of Axis casualties you would have accepted in WW2. That might be zero or it might be fairly high.
Not the same as in every war.
https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/death-toll-children-gaza-israel-rcna143269
from 2019 through 2022
That's cherry picking.
The civilian casualty rate in Gaza is about the same as the Second Chechen War and less than on the East Front, in North Korea, or in Vietnam.
Since I asked how many children and not the rate of children, I'm pretty sure a count of children is not cherry picking.
But I guess your answer is that any amount of children killed in a war is acceptable and nothing to be complaining about.
I didn't say it was acceptable. It is no more acceptable than civilian deaths in Germany, Japan, or Chechnya.
People are often more concerned about the rate of deaths because Gaza is relatively small. But if you really are counting how many and not the rate, then the vast majority of wars were worse than Gaza. The number of civilian deaths in Dresden alone is comparable to those in Gaza. Over 150,000 civilians have died in Iraq.
And as I said, some people find one civilian death to be unacceptable, others are willing to accept more than one. I've never met anyone who is willing to accept "any amount".
Interesting that you keep saying 'civilian death' and not 'child.' Seems like we're talking about two very different things.
I’ve never met anyone who is willing to accept “any amount”.
Then see the person who replied to me who says it's worth killing any amount to get rid of Hamas.
Interesting that you keep saying 'civilian death' and not 'child.' Seems like we're talking about two very different things.
Maybe so. But personally, I believe that all civilian deaths are equally tragic whether of a child, an old man, or a mother. In fact, I would object if someone said "X dead women is acceptable, but X dead children is unacceptable", because personally I believe that whatever X you choose should be age-independent. YMMV
I’m neither pro-Israel nor pro-Hamas
What worm ate your brain and made you think that is the choice of sides here?? Fighting for Palestinian emancipation has nothing to do with being pro-Hamas you dingus.
Those are the two sides that are currently at war. They are both religiously motivated right-wing regimes, and I support neither one.
I'm also not fighting for Palestinian "emancipation", for the same reason I'm not fighting to "emancipate" Istanbul from Turks or New York from Americans.
If Israel were ONLY attacking Hamas, you'd be correct.
The problem is they are insistant on attacking, bombing, killing, and displacing all of the innocent Palestinians in Gaza as well, because they have been at war with Palestine, not Hamas, for generations now.
They are at war with Palestine just as Americans were at war with Germany and Japan. Many civilians were killed and displaced there, too.
Palestine didn't attack them, Hamas did.
Hamas is the government of Gaza
Tell that to the millions of Palestinians homeless and starving thanks to Israel.
I don't follow.
Hamas is the government of Gaza even though Gazans are suffering thanks to Israel. Just as Hirohito was the leader of the Japanese even though they were suffering thanks to America.
In both cases, a government failed to protect its people.
The going rate is 1:30 Israelis to Palestinians in revenge killing. For killing each Hamas militant they're allowed to kill around 20 as collateral damage. 50% in Gaza are children so 10 kids per Hamas militant is okay according to the Israeli government.
According to some people here, infinite kids per militant is okay to maintain Israeli security.
And I have no idea why they think a state that believes killing large numbers of children is acceptable is worth securing.
As per item 2: If the enemy was using them as hostages I sure as shit wouldn't just bomb the building and kill everyone. I'd prefer to use special forces to go in on foot and secure the building with minimal casualties. And only when diplomacy fails.
The enemy was using them as shields because they didn't think you'd be that fucking stupid to just bomb everyone; they assumed you had some empathy.