DISCUSSION: Episode 19
DISCUSSION: Episode 19
Last weeks thread - 17 Comments
Dungeon Meshi is a well liked manga, and an adaptation by Studio Trigger is now airing. If you haven’t picked this one up, consider joining us. Both for fun and as a way of contributing to activity on Lemmy.
Episodes are available to stream on Netflix.
Laios and the gang finally gain a new party member! It's not Falin, and she's a bit of a pain, but how can they say no to adopting a catgirl in need?
The adventure continues as our heroes delve deeper into the dungeon.
Remember not to spoil anything if you’re a manga reader, but feel free to elaborate on tidbits of lore that may not be coming through in the adaptation.
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In previous episodes it seemed like Shuro's servants were happy and willing but this episode shows that maybe that's not the case. Izutsumi seems to have been forced into servitude, her body modified and weaponized against her will. Certainly doesn't help improve my opinion of Shuro to realize he's a slave owner.
As I expected Senshi's cooking comes to rescue and helps mellow out our new cat friend ( ＾▽＾)
The dream rescue was pretty cool, Marcille remembering Laios as a friendly fluffy dog is so cute lol.
I touched on this in previous discussion threads. The retainers are property.
When they "join" the family as retainers, they don't even get to keep their original names. They insisted on renaming Izutsumi to Asebi.
Their existence is so normalized, Shuro doesn't give them a second thought. The only one among them he considered a person is Maizuru, as she was his tutor growing up. They formed a bond (this is why Maizuru is so "motherly" towards him), but he grew distant again after learning that his dad was fucking her. The consensuality of which is extremely questionable considering "no" is not an option for a slave.
Shuro has had quite a challenge growing into someone half-decent in an environment where completely fucked up things are normal.
Do they ever explore that in the future or is it just for flavor? Always puts me off a little when shows introduce such heavy subjects and then don't really touch on them.
It's a big part of who Izu is, and as such will be a focus of her character exploration and development.
But Shuro or the other retainers are side characters, they're just around. Exploring them fully would mean going off on a major tangent to the main plot, so it doesn't really happen.
The Nakamoto family is elaborated on a bit in the world guide. They are themselves a servant family to the eastern emperor, but one in a powerful position. They employ retainer-ninjas to perform clandestine operations in the name of the empire. They are essentially the eastern Black Ops.
Shuro has been sent off along with an escort of retainers, to explore the world as a coming of age.
The current head of the family, Shuro's father, seems to be a drunkard creep that does things on a whim. The only reason Shuro seems so level headed is that he was effectively raised by Maizuru, rather than his biological parents.
I see, sounds good. Hope our main party have some opinions on it, Laios believed Shuro to be his bff so I wonder how he'd feel about him after learning more about Izutsumi. Regardless, I hope the show is not neutral about it like so many animes these days are. Thanks for all the lore, helps expand my understanding of the story and characters.
It's hard to hold Shuro responsible. I think he used to be a lot more down to earth.
Reading his character sheet, it says he didn't really find anyone to look up to as a role model, and instead got attached to his tutor Maizuru, a person that is technically "below" him. Hiens chapter also describes that her past relationship with Shuro was much more like that of actual friends rather than master and servant.
He doesn't really own the retainers, yet. He is the son of the man who does. He's no longer a child, but still very much under the thumb of his father. While he might be able to have them die for him in some dungeon, setting them free "because that's the right thing to do" would likely have dad disowning him the moment he finds out.
I think Maizurus relationship with the family head hurt Shuro, being a reminder that someone he loves and respects as a person, can be, and is treated, like property. As a coping mechanism he's stopped thinking of her as a person, aligning himself with a status quo he can't change. I don't think that can last. He's clearly miserable either way, and though Izu is left for dead, he actually gives the other retainers an apology for putting them in danger.
I'm very curious about what Maizurus inner thoughts might be on all of it. Because she seems to have a much, much clearer idea of what Shuros future will look like.
Her play seems to be backing a future head of the family in hopes he'll be a better master.
The way Maizuru talks about Shuro, shows she has no qualms being parental to the point of manipulative in molding him into a "proper" person. By doing so she is in a way exercising power and influence through Shuro, the future head of the Nakamotos. She speaks of the current head in an almost traitorous manner in the world guide. That makes me think that though she is genuinely fond of Shuro, she has plans of her own to realize when it comes to how the Nakamoto family should be run.
Then again, Maizuru doesn't seem to have a problem with the whole retainer practice, seeing as she was responsible for maintaining the spell on Izu. Like Shuro, she is terminally upper-class, and is just so used to the status quo that it simply seems "proper" for things to work the way they do. But I think that by becoming so important in Shuro's life, she's unwittingly set Shuro up to one day realize that owning people isn't cool.
What's he gonna do when he "inherits" ownership of Maizuru? I don't think really "owning" his first-love-kind-of-mother-figure is gonna sit right with him.
If he "keeps" her, he'd just be like his father. I do not think Shuro likes his father, or the idea of being like him.
Maizuru kinda sounds like Vivienne from dragon age... I hate that character lol. I don't know if I agree with Kubro not being responsible, he did leave Izutsumi behind knowing full well what'll happen to her. He's not a sheltered child anymore, he's an experienced adventurer, he's seen what the world is like and has enough experience to be able to understand that his slaves are people, not property. A friendly slaver is still a slaver after all.
Anyways, from what I gather the story won't focus on Shuro or his family much so not much point speculating what he feels or thinks about this subject, or what he might do in the future.
I don't like him, either. I'm lukewarm. I'm trying to explain why he makes sense, is so interesting, and is still potentially redeemable.
I used the phrase "terminally upper-class" to describe him. As in someone shaped by his surroundings to the extent that only serious interaction with new things will change him.
He's 26, only recently kicked out into the world on his father's whim. He's trained. Not experienced. His recent joining Laios' party is literally the first adventuring he's ever done.
He's a rich kid out on his first outing into the real world.
He already knows that the retainers are people. He grew up playing with them, literally raised by one of them. He started off knowing they were people.
I think he is in a depression and choosing to ignore that fact because it is easier than dealing with the feelings caused by caring about these people, while being powerless to help them. Something he hadn't yet been forced to acknowledge until learning that the most formative person in his life, is also his dad's favourite plaything. He knows they are people, and is trying reconcile that with the cards that real life has dealt them. And yes, he is failing. Hard.
Of course, he isn't really powerless, but going from feeling that way to knowing otherwise, and then acting on it, can take years, no matter how old you are. And I think Maizuru is banking on it happening. Though she herself probably doesn't realize how far Shuro will want to change things when he finally processes it all.
Still wouldn't let him have Falin in a million years. She could do so much better.
I see, I assumed he was experienced based on what's presented in the show so far, thanks for additional info.
I understand how he is the way he is and why that's interesting but yeah, still don't like him, maybe my opinion will change in the future.
And yeah, totally agree, Falin is too nice to be with him.
I can totally see how one could get that idea. He's clearly competent, and extremely skilled with a blade.
But taking a second look, you see the signs. Apparently the man has never had to get real with a friend to get something properly communicated, nor experienced what happens if you don't eat and sleep.
He has skill, but on the kinds of things you get from experience, he's a complete beginner. It's pretty clear Maizuru has been begging him to eat at every opportunity, and unlike when Shuro was a subordinate of Laios, she would have been powerless to stop him making leadership mistake after mistake.
I wonder if he left her behind because he figured she would follow the group and be freed by Marcielle, then he could just claim she probably died in the dungeon while she's living free
I don't know, if that were the case it would've been shown I think, considering the curse placed on her Shuro would've said something about that if he was concerned. Marcille explains that separating souls is kinda impossible even for a mage of her caliber, I don't think Shuro would've assumed that she could do it.
I'll just quickly confirm two things explained in the world guide.
The spell Maizuru used to keep track of Izu may not actually be lethal. She used to use the exact same spell to keep Shuro from running off as a child, so it might be that all it does is scare the subject.
Second, Izu wants her curse broken, but it wasn't placed on her by the Nakamotos. She was already a beast-man when they bought her from a freak show.
The spell Maizuru used to keep track of Izu may not actually be lethal. She used to use the exact same spell to keep Shuro from running off as a child, so it might be that all it does is scare the subject.
It definitely seemed lethal with the way it was using that knife, probably a modified version of the same spell that she used for Shuro, I think.
Izu wants her curse broken, but it wasn't placed on her by the Nakamotos.
I see, probably from some dealer who sells "exotic" slaves, yuck (._.)