Allowing racists and fascists a seat at the table under the guise of 'fairness' or 'free speech'. Reddit became polluted with far-right astroturfing in the last six years.
It is not tolerance to welcome those persons who seek to harm you.
That's a paradox. You cannot tolerate everything. That's why there's no such thing as not being bigoted. It's literally impossible to tolerate everything.
You just have to pick what things you're not going to tolerate. Now if only we could always agree on what that is.
It absolutely is because there are things that you where you cannot tolerate both oposing viewpoints. There's also things that you do not want to tolerate.
Unless you believe it's not okay to be intolerant of murder.
I hope that helps illustrate how it's not just a rhetorical paradox. It's a conceptual one too. Much of the time, it's not tolerance vs intolerance. It's picking between two flavors of intolerance.
Well I mean if you're expanding the argument to things as well, then yeah, it becomes rather unwieldy. But if you constrain it to intolerance for people, then it remains rather simple.
Not at all. I'm not talking about just things. I'm also talking about about people.
It is not simple to determine the extent to which to tolerate different groups of people. Unless you're saying that you want to be equally tolerant of murderers, races, all religions, and people who like pineapple on pizza.
Murder falls under intolerance. Religion can exist without being intolerant, but often doesn't. The smell test really is pretty simple: if you're not actively hurting someone besides yourself, you should be tolerated. Along with that, we decide that intolerance for other reasons (ie, because of a person's genetic makeup or mode of expression) is itself harmful.
Now we can find tune and dicker about where that line of injury is, and of course there are special cases where the alleged hurt is spread around and it's hard to decide how to adjudicate that, but that's what the law and all its apparatus is for, after all.
I wouldn't say murder falls under intolerance. It certainly can, but not all the time.
if you’re not actively hurting someone besides yourself, you should be tolerated.
Who gets to define what constitutes not actively hurting someone besides yourself? Is it just as defined by you or do other people get a say? What do you do when someone decides that not wearing a hijab or extra-marital sex is actively harming others?
I hope that illustrates why this is not simple at all. It's incredibly complex.
And as I was saying in my initial comment, it's literally impossible to objectively define tolerance. But, you have to choose to tolerate some things and not others (because they're mutually exclusive). So you end up with different forms of intolerance of behaviors that you deem intolerant.
Along with that, we decide that intolerance for other reasons (ie, because of a person’s genetic makeup or mode of expression) is itself harmful.
And we decide that intolerance is acceptable for many other reasons. You don't tolerate ignorant people. You don't tolerate people who cannot arrive on time. You don't tolerate people who are too rude. Intolerance of those aspects
Now we can find tune and dicker about where that line of injury is, and of course there are special cases where the alleged hurt is spread around and it’s hard to decide how to adjudicate that, but that’s what the law and all its apparatus is for, after all.
The special cases are the ones where it's actually clear. The majority of the cases are where we struggle to know where to draw the line.
brother I got called a racist for saying a football (soccer) player who happens to be black is shite
and football fans are way less trigger happy with accusations of racism than americans seem to be, even if they themselves are american for some reason
"dig through". Man, your comment after this one is defending oil companies. And a few comments before is a ridiculous propaganda talking point.
There's a very important reason post history is public. It makes this site harder to manipulate than 4chan. It's so much easier for one actor to overpower 4chan it's ridiculous. A Reddit operation is still certainly possible, but much more challenging.
A post history enables accountability, which is something a lot of people severely lack.
If you take issue with being held accountable for what you say, then perhaps you need to look at what you're posting.
I have only read the comments here and didn't look at your post history, because I frankly don't care enough to, but I would imagine people are assuming you do not argue or debate in good faith. That may be an incorrect assumption, for all I know, but you'll need to make your positions more clear to people that might feel some type of way about what you're sayin'.
Don't be so quick to dismiss people's anger. It comes from a place of their own truth. They probably have a good reason for it. Acknowledge the truth first and then address the complaint.
I’ll give you that, but it unfortunately leads to a lot of prejudice and antisocial behavior.
My comment is a perfect example. All I said was that people shouldn’t call others facist/racist, and that was all it took for everyone to assume that I am.
I'll grant that it is often used as a thought-terminating cliché, and we should all be judicious it its use. But sometimes you just call something what it is.
In the last 6 years? If anything, reddit got less tolerant of the far right since inception, it just became a bigger deal when they banned them in the last 6 years
You believe what you want to. Nothing I say is going to convince you, random internet person.
I had used reddit since the near beginning, and over time the prevalence of 'alternative facts' and other right-wing narratives has risen sharply. You also have communities like r/conservative that participate in open calls to violence and perpetuate right wing dogwhistles for maximum rage bait. The sheer slide of r/politicalcompassmemes going from people role-playing different ideologies to thinly-veiled alt-right propaganda speaks to this shift.
Catering to conservatives and right wing players results in the enshittification of the website.
I think that generally the internet got more of those types of people and they got louder, reddit used to have subreddits whose names were just slurs or subreddits blatantly dedicated to racism. The idea of a "dogwhistle" on reddit didn't exist because the racists just said and did racist things without fear of being banned.
Yeah, you're both right. There's less outright hate now, but more propaganda.
Political Compass Memes is the Fox News version of fair and balanced. It's intended to convert people with a thin veil of "both sides". And that thin veil will be enough for a lot of impressionable kids.
Well yeah, to continue with the fire metaphor, it's hard to put out a fire once you've already let it get out of hand. PLENTY of people were warning about those communities before they grew into the mob that stormed the capital, for example. Reddit only stepped in and did something about them when it became a bad look for them to let them keep shitting on the lawn.
Whether or not it's tolerance isn't directly important.
The mistake that people make is assuming that tolerance is inherently good. It is to a certain degree, but there are many things that you do not want to tolerate. That's where we want to be.
However, many people think of themselves as tolerant and find it difficult to make that conceptual realization.
what? reddit was an american "left" "look at how good of a person i am for hating on racists and pedophile" (like congrats?) circlejerk
the racists and fascists were contained in their subreddits and were ignorable