Valve just pulled a Blizzard and seems to have gotten away with it.
Valve just pulled a Blizzard and seems to have gotten away with it.
I find it odd there has been very little noise about this. Like sweet its awesome to see that there is a new Counter strike and the features they are adding seem awesome. People were very angry when Blizzard did this same exact thing, where is the anger right now about this?
I'm not here to say Valve should forever support their games, its just seems weird to kill it when there are fundamental differences between the games. Kill the official servers, that is fine since the community will just adjust and host their own servers but basically zapping the game out of existence seems wrong and it continues the worrying trends we have that can revolve around game preservation.
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Because with Overwatch 2, the changes were so small and meaningless that it could have just been an update to the original game. CS2 is on a whole new engine and has significant upgrades that couldn't have been implemented in a simple update. Not to mention all the promised features OW2 was supposed to have that they backtracked on. That being said, I don't exactly agree that they should have outright replaced CS:GO, but it's not really the same as what Blizzard did. If they had replaced the original OW but had a significant reason to do so like Valve did, people wouldn't be so upset at them.
Do you know what OW2 changed, since you call it small and meaningless?
Imo the gameplay updates with a move to 5v5 were pretty significant. The engine stayed the same, afaik, but some things were overhauled, although I don't know if it was just visual changes.
According to some comments I've read, CS2 feels somewhat rushed. Some game modes and maps are missing, and the subtick server stuff also seems like a mixed bag.
So, why is it fine for one of these games, but not the other? For someone who hasn't played either game in years, it feels like a similar level of change for either game.
OW2 changed the number of players on a team, rebalance some heros and changes some day maps to night and some night maps to day, nothing that couldn't have just been a big update. The only justification for a whole new game was the free PvE mode, which they walked back on and is no longer free. Not to mention that people who've had hands on with it are saying it's not even very good. CS2 on the other hand is on an entirely new engine with significant upgrades across the board, both in the technical aspect and graphical. I played some just last night and the difference between 2 and GO are night and day, no way it could have just been an update. Also it's been brought to my attention that, unlike what I previously thought, CS:GO is indeed still available to run community servers on, unlike the original OW which is lost completely to the world.
OW2 PvE was never going to be free, and whether people find whatever mode was added fun or not should not matter.
Dota 2 changed their engine and that was handled in an update, we didn't get Dota 3.
You do however have a point with previous CSGO versions still being accessible, if that still works.
OW2 PvE was 100% originally going to be free, then they cancelled it outright and only brought it back when the community spoke up about it, but now for a price. But yeah, as far as I'm aware CS:GO is still available so unlike OW2, you don't like the new one, you don't have to play it, you still habe options. Another commenter posted the how to if that's something you're interested in.
edit: also as far as I'm aware, Dota 2's engine update was just a graphical update, they didn't change anything fundamental to the game. As I said before the difference between CS:GO or CS2 is night and day, they changed a lot.
Edit 2: also I think it's a little disingenuous to imply that the quality of a game mode that people now have to pay for doesn't matter
If you search for results before the OW2 PvP release last year, you'll find a bunch of articles and comments, that say PvP is free, PvE is going to cost money.
You said repeatedly, that the engine changes between CSGO and CS2 are night and day, and I'm not disputing that. I just think, going from 6v6 to 5v5, reworking and rebalancing heroes to accommodate that, is also a night and day difference.
When I was talking about how the quality of a game mode shouldn't matter in this discussion, I meant only when comparing the "name changes" for OW2 and CS2, and if a game "deserves" to be called a sequel.
Fair points I suppose. Tho I think the real game changer here is that CS:GO is still available, while the original OW is not, thus making all other points moot. If I don't think that CS2 deserved to be a full on sequel instead of an update and would rather keep playing CS:GO, nothing is stopping me. I think that's why Valve "got away with it" as you put it. They haven't forced the new changes on anyone like Blizzard did. Players still have a choice. Whether or not it deserves to be a sequel is meaningless when the previous game is still available for free.
I think the real game changer here is that CS:GO is still available, while the original OW is not
Absolutely. This is the main difference for me, which I didn't know in the beginning, although it makes sense, since it's been known that Steam has this functionality. If that gets some "official" support (selecting the version in the game properties like a beta), and not the current hacky solution, it would be great.
To be honest though, I still think for a lot of people across the internet, it's totally a Blizzard bad, Valve good, situation.
You're not really wrong that people think "Blizzard bad, Valve good" but they're kinda right in a way. Valve have a much better track record when it comes to not screwing over their customers compared to someone like blizzard (or EA, or Ubisoft, etc). Screwing up OW2 was one more grievance on top of a mountain of them and there's no hope that the community will get what they want. Valve on the other hand has shown they actually give a shit about their fans and are willing to listen (an example being how so many user requested features have been added to the steam deck remarkable fast). Valve is one of the few major companies left in the AAA space that seem to have any soul left, everyone else seems to have succumbed to corporate greed. So yeah, people might react less harshly when they do something like they just did. Honestly tho, if people are really upset about it, I don't doubt that valve will here it and do something about it, it's much more likely that Blizzard bringing back OW1
Note: OP of the thread just with a beehaw account now since Kbin shit the bed for me and I can't see comments.
Except its only technically available. If you want to use steam console shenanigans sure you can technically play CS GO and while there is a beta version up for CS GO it is an outdated version. Nothing is stopping Valve from having a new steam id associated with CS2. While there are servers up for both 1.38.7.9 (the one available via beta) and 1.39.4.8 (latest build) it is clear the move Steam did has basically killed that community.
To technical users they have a choice, the less savy users they don't. We shouldn't get angry at one company for doing something bad but ignore when another but more beloved company does a very similar thing but we ignore it because there is a hacky solution to it. Imagine if they did the same exact thing to CS 1 or CS Source. Hell really imagine if they fucking killed Half life 1 and replaced it with that abomination Half life 1 source. Like its cool to have an answer to possibly help but we can't expect most users to do the hacky solution.
Having CS2 and GO as separate entities would go a long way for sure, but I don't think what they've done is quite as egregious at OW. To be clear, I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's no where near as bad.
If enough people cry out for an easier way to access CS:GO then I would not be surprised in the slightest if valve heard them and did something about it. They're pretty good about listening to their community and that's more than I can say for Blizzard. That tends to be why people are less harsh when they screw up because they don't have a history of screwing up and they tend to fix them too