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If you could have voted, didn't vote for Harris, and aren't actively out in the streets hucking bricks at ICE and trumpers, then I have no respect for you.
You played the game and you played to lose. You played to lose when we had everything to lose, and nothing to gain. You made the 4th worst choice I can think of in the last 30 years.
Harris would have abolished ICE and gotten rid of the cages that Trump set up and Biden ignored, right?
...Right?
Nah you're right. Good thing trump is getting rid of them...OH WAIT.
"What about Trump being evil?"
Yeah he's fucking evil, good going dodging my question.
It's all liberals know how to do. Cannot for the life of them take responsibility. Blame the left for their failure while using the right as a boogeyman to force compliance.
No cages is obviously the ideal case. Fewer cages is obviously better than more cages, which was the choice at the polls.
"I don't believe in voting" fine, enjoy the more cages option.
But the cages didn't go down with Biden. COVID was ignored under Biden. Trump wanted these things and Biden kept them. It's not lesser evil, its incremental evil.
I also didn't say anything about not voting. I voted for Harris. I've proven it before and I will proven it again if needed. It was useless here in California but I did it anyways.
Sorry, couldn't answer your question because I don't live in an alternate reality where trump didn't win. Maybe ask some of the other people here?
So Harris would have kept ICE then, got it.
Probably, since ICE was created by Congress as part of the 2002 Homeland Security Act. The President oversees it, but funding and removing the organization is a power of congress and not the president. You would know that if you bothered to learn a little bit before forming opinions.
"You see we need to keep the Gastapo, parliament passed it so why stop it?"
I understand Harris can't write bills as president, you dingus. A president has sway over their party. What Biden wanted, Dems pushed. What Trump wants, Republicans demand.
If Harris, a brown woman said "Hey ICE is a racist police organization made post-9/11 to go after brown people, let's push to get rid of it" that would spark movement in Congress.
So Harris would have kept ICE then...
I understand Harris can’t write bills as president, you dingus
Then why the fuck are you confused about my answer? Sounds like you are disappointed by the fact that Harris was not all of congress as well?
I want my politicians to fight for things that are for a healthier country. Why is that controversial?
Ignored? Biden did try to reunite with their families the migrant children who were caged under Trump's first term. Some couldn't be found because of the Trump administration's lax recordkeeping, but they didn't just ignore them. That's just a lie.
So everyone was freed form the cages and they were removed, making it harder for Trump to keep doing it? Zero people in there by the end of 2024?
If we're talking about the cells that were built during the Obama administration as temporary holding cells, which Trump then used to permanently hold migrant children who were separated from their guardians by his inhumane policy, then yes, there were no children being held in those cells by the end of 2024.
Perfect example of the lib thinking that just voting means they actually did something so they don't have to do any direct action. Which is of course why your country inevitably goes to shit.
Shouldn't you be spending your gaslighting budget on your fellow liberals who actually understand what the term genocide means, liberal?
They have to proselytize and guilt trip for a politician failing at their job of winning over voters.
It's not just a politican they are proselytising for... they are proselytising for an entire ideology that has hit rock-bottom. Liberalism's lies have come crashing down - and it's adherents will happily consign colonised peoples to the abyss if it means they can pretend it hasn't.
They will keep talking to themselves as how voting the only thing that matters, everyone has to vote for the 2nd most evil candidature, and then fail at earning votes.
And then blame people for not being interested in "I will have as strong as a border as Trump, I will have the strongest military ever, I will abide by rules for anti-trans states, and I will do nothing about Gaza."
They will keep talking to themselves as how voting the only thing that matters, everyone has to vote for the 2nd most evil candidature
I think you need to re-read my original comment. To summarize it here though...
You are either working within the system (voting/or abstaining from voting) or working outside the system (overthrowing by force), but I have no respect for people who work within while intending to fail, knowingly risking everything for that failure, for no possible gain, and then have the audacity to think that other people are the deluded ones making poor choices.
If you didn't vote for Harris, and you aren't burning shit, then you're either a trumper who is fine with all the shit that is going on, or you're a spineless imbecile who was willing to ruin everything for everyone, but unwilling actually make a meaningful attack on the system.
It's not gaslighting if it's the truth.
By voting (or just not voting) you participated in the system. If you want to be against the system, then you need to overthrow it.
You played to lose, which was dumb, and you played to lose when there was nothing to gain, and everything to lose (which is even more dumb). If you aren't burning shit, then you never actually cared enough to be against it, you're an apathetic asshole who squandered their only voice to say "I don't care if the facists win, Kamala isn't perfect and I can't stand that". You may not have voted for trump, but you sure as fuck voted for all of this. I have no respect for the people that lack neither the intelligence to make the right decisions, nor the conviction to live with the consequences of making the wrong one.
It’s not gaslighting if it’s the truth.
So you admit to gaslighting, then. Plus one for honesty, I guess.
By voting (or just not voting) you participated in the system.
Soooo... neither participating nor not participating means anything - is that correct?
and everything to lose
LOL! Lose what, genius? Did you really think that glorified pig was going to actually protect you from the fascists? I guess you don't understand why the libs institutionalised that very thing we call "fascism" today in the first place, huh?
Wake the fuck up.
By voting (or just not voting) you participated in the system.
Soooo… neither participating nor not participating means anything - is that correct?
Couldn't be more wrong. You are either playing to win, not playing to win, or not playing. In a 2 party system, a non-vote is the same decision as a vote. If you want to not play, then you need to be hostile to the system.
LOL! Lose what, genius?
Well, let's see... My grandparents Medicare, my LGBTQ friends and family members rights, retirement savings, what little healthcare we actually had before, literally climate and the ability to live at or near the equator and coasts... Didn't even have to google any of that. I guess if you want the full list, you can read project 2025, and the also draw conclusions from related activities. Oh, vaccine availability and herd immunity. 1st Amendment rights. Habeas corpus just to tack on a few more there.
You wake the fuck up and look and the fucking mess you made because a perfect person wasn't put up against Orange Hitler.
You are either playing to win
Win what, liberal? Four more years of liberals doing absolutely everything in their power to make life easier for fascists?
Well, let’s see…
Oh... you mean those things your precious liberal racketeers haven't lifted a finger to protect in any way whatsoever? Do tell, genius - what did your "good cop" overlords do when the fascists took away Roe vs. Wade? What did they do when Trump sicced a white supremacist lynch mob on the US capitol?
Except tell you to "vote harder," that is?
Again... wake the fuck up.
Your plan is working so well right now!
Palestine is doing great! Economy has never been better and inflation is under control! People aren't being rounded up and sent to extra-national torture prisons without a trial. The world you've heralded in is just doing so fucking great!
Palestine is doing great!
About that... how is that lie - oops, sorry, I meant to say "prediction your ilk peddled" - that Trump was going to be (supposedly) "worse" for Palestine turn out?
Your liberal-funded genocide - which the people you voted for enabled, of course - now looks pretty much the exact same as it did under Genocide Joe.
Do tell... will you be peddling this same lie again in four years' time?
About that… how is that lie - oops, sorry, I meant to say “prediction your ilk peddled” - that Trump was going to be (supposedly) “worse” for Palestine turn out?
Do you honestly think that Harris would have been worse for Palestine than Trump?
Do tell… will you be peddling this same lie again in four years’ time?
Do you think Gaza and Palestine are even gonna be there in 4 years? We're not even 1/8th of the way through this term...
Do you honestly think that Harris would have been worse for Palestine than Trump?
Oh, I see you've modified the lie now - now it's not "Trump will be worse for Palestine," it's "Harris would at least not have been worse than Trump for Palestine."
You libs really don't stand for anything at all, do you? As long as you get your scheduled amount of crumbs off the plutocrat's table you'll regurgitate any of their hogwash.
Do you think Gaza and Palestine are even gonna be there in 4 years?
Yes. Gaza and the Palestinians will still be there in four years' time, still burning your precious Zionists in their US-funded tanks. Your precious liberal order has been trying and failing to get rid of them since at least the 70s - which means you have four years to decide what lies you will be peddling about it then.
It honestly made fuck all difference how I voted. My state went for Harris. My state was always going to go for Harris.
Matter of fact? My state is the only state that actually went MORE for Harris than it did for Biden.
How many trumpers have you hit with a brick?
You need to re-read the comment.
You voted, so you excuse yourself from the violence you demand of others, I get it. I just see a lot of people saying if you don't do x,y, and z violent thing to stop american fascism you are the problem, coming from people who have likely never been in a fight.
They are saying if people couldn't atleast put forth the effort of slowing facism down, and not now putting their life in peril to stop it, then they are actively allowing it to happen. We had a chance to stop it with civility, but were pretty much pass that point.
We had a chance to stop it with civility, but were pretty much pass that point.
When? Like, sometime in the 70's, perhaps?
I know that, now throw the first stone, go ahead, do it
Speaking as someone who's had cops intervene at a protest... I threw that first rock a while ago. Some soccer moms in San Diego yesterday ran an ICE squad out of town. Consider your excuse null and void.
Like I said. No respect.
And you have no idea what I have done. Ohh, you went to a protest that the cops intervened on, I was doing that 25 years ago.
Did you vote for Harris?
Yes, unlike a lot of people I believe in damage mitigation, while working on things more at the local level, because the foundation is where change can be made. Harris was a shit choice, but it was the less damaging of the two. I now worry about myself, and numerous friends, as this administration seems to have made it its mission to kill us.
I have been active in protests, counter culture, etc full tilt since the start of Bush 2. I am no longer able to be so physically aggressive as I once was, for medical reasons. However, I am prepared, at least as much as I can reasonably be, in the case of making decisions with lead. My interest in cooking has actually allowed me to connect with the local Palestinian population, as a Palestinian owned grocery is one of the few local sources for middle eastern stuff. So I have listened to their issues, and gotten involved in stuff they are doing in the face of the genocide.
I could go on, and on, as I am getting some years on me. However, I see A LOT of keyboard warrior bullshit. I see so many calls for violence, and accusations that if you aren't instigating revolutionary violence, you are responsible. Then I comb through their post history, and, well, it provides a lot of evidence of being all talk. Violence has been something that has affected my life in a profound way. I really, really, doubt most of these people calling for the blood of the enemies, could actually handle killing their neighbors who may be ardent supporters of this fascist clown show. Like, I really do not think most people doing this actually know what doing something that crass is like, and I believe that if it came down to it most of these people wouldn't be able to do it.
If the midterm election is suspended with some sort of executive order, or they clearly rigged the vote, or did something to postpone it, well, as they say, soap box, ballot box, ammo box. I really, truly, deeply, hope we can break the GOP's grasp if the midterm elections are allowed to happen legitimately. If that is the case, the US has suffered permanent damage, but there is a chance to course correct. Collective labor movements are the most popular they have been in nearly a century, along with a few other positive motions, if we can manage to elect one of our more progressive party members, maybe they can harness this momentum, and do something positive.
If not, well, a complete civil deadlock means we move beyond civil methodology. I do not want this. However, as I said, I, and a lot of people I care about, have to worry about being put in a position, if they actually achieve the cuts, and legal changes, they are pushing, where they will restructure in a way that may literally mean the death of me, and people I care about, or being put in cages, swept off to foreign prison camps, and the like.
I apologize for attacking you. I am just really, really, fed up with shit.
Totally understand.
I hesitate to call for violence. It's not something I think we should accept as political discourse in society. It's not something I have the stomach for. I would much prefer to vote. I really would have love to vote for someone other than Kamala. I wrote a letter to the DNC after 2020 basically saying if they don't change and put forward a progressive candidate then they're gonna lose in 2024.
I'm tired of this shit too. We lost a lot in 2024, it literally will not get fixed in my lifetime, if ever. I really hope I'm wrong, and that we end up with a better progressive candidate in 2028. TBH, I've been thinking about running for Congress on the platform of "I'm tired of watching you all fuck this up".
Thanks for being the bigger person here and offering the olive branch.
There are other parties. There was Jill Stein. If you could have voted, didn't vote for Stein and aren't actively out in the streets chucking bricks at ICE and trumpers, than I have no respect for you.
You played the game and played to win. Exactly what both right wing parties, the Democrats and the Republicans, want you to do. You're easily set up to blame your fellow people instead of a system that has made you a tool to their disposal. You're a spineless husk that listens to a leader that supports bombing children on the other side of the world just because the other party is "more evil".
Stop voting for evil, vote for good. Because voting for the lesser evil will still end in evil.
Stein barely got 100k more votes than Kennedy, who had dropped out of the race and endorsed trump.
I understand your satire, but clearly you did not understand what "Playing to lose" meant.
I see 862.049 people who voted for a better world.
I can jump off a building using a parachute in hopes it will open and generate enough drag to save me in time. A miracle, but it can happen.
Or I can board the skydiving plane everyone is boarding and reduce the risk of above happening.
If you don't want change, that's okay. There's people who do, though.
I do want change. Unfortunate for you, I am not in the US. I am from the rest of the world that was affected by your selfish decisions and 'moral high ground' decisions. Thanks for voting for some 3rd party that wouldn't have any realistic chance in today's US of winning. Instead of, you know, helping the rest of the US push for Harris. Under Harris you had all the time in the world to get people in the millions if you wanted to vote for Jill or whoever else. You must have slept so well that night knowing you didn't help everyone pushing to stop Trump with a lesser evil.
But sure, preach to me how you want change by doing no realistic action contributing to it. You were on a sinking ship and you put a plaster over a breached hull. Congrats.
Next time, if you want to take down any system, you must first partake in the system. Everyone has hopes & dreams of a 3rd party winning in the U.S. but it was very. Very fucking vital to give that idea up with Trump on the ballot.
What made you think I'm from the US? I'm from the Netherlands, a country that, thank god, hadn't americanized to the point of only having 2 parties to vote on.
I'm active in my local politics, work in the social field, I'm spending most of my live making the world a better place. I'm active in resistance communities in support of immigrants, repressed students, and the current cost-of-living crisis here. What are you on about.
You make so many assumptions it's fucking hilarious.
The way to fix the fasiscm is not by playing the fascism game. It's by acting and showing that there's a social alternative. And that alternative has fuck all to do with liberalist like the dems.
Go seethe in your corner while the rest of us try to make the world a better place for everyone.
I see 862,049 people who went all in and bet their house while holding an 8 and a 2.
There is a word for that kind of behavior...
People who want change instead of more of the same wars, murder, anti-consumerism and billionaires. I agree, although it's a little more than one word.
Nope. The word is "Stupid".
What are the top 3?
Trump 2024, Trump 2020, and Trump 2016.