A question about "they" / "them"…
A question about "they" / "them"…
I am neuro-divergent. I struggle with remembering minutia that aren't, coincidentally, just luckily the minutia that I glimpse, once, and never forget. I state this not as an excuse but as a statement of fact and I am terrible at remembering people's pronouns. I cannot even remember people's names. When I see people I know, I can remember who they are, what we have done together, where we have been, what we have seen and even the tone of voice they might use to exclaim at an occurrence or upon some eventuality but – yet – I often cannot remember their names. Pronouns are like parts of their names.
And, so, I tend to address everyone with "they" / "them".
In my limited experience, this only tends to annoy the anti-woke conservative types who renounce the very concept of pronouns and believe that one should only ever be addressed as "he" / "him" – assuming that a penis hangs between their thighs – or "she" / "her" otherwise. (A musing: How do they know? Also, what if it's cold? Or they're upside down? Quandaries within quandaries!)
BUT... I am open minded and I can believe that others, too, might be offended by my cop-out, including open-minded, non-mysoginist, non-bigots who do understand why people elect to be addressed under non-Victorian pronouns.
I have recently had reason to pause and wonder about this. I struggle with pronouns but I do try my best and so, I'm asking: for which reasons might someone object? Tell me, LGBTQ+ community.
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If you use "they/them" to refer to a binary trans person, it'll make you sound bigoted, like you're de-gendering that person. For example, using "they/them" for a trans woman who goes by she/her pronouns will make her mad: she'll think you're not calling her a woman on purpose. Same with trans men.
That's fair. Insightful.
I have very nuanced bi-sexual tendencies and, to me, I don't personally have strong feelings towards my own pronouns but I have not personally realised any deep affiliation with "male" (my assigned gender) or "female" but I can well imagine that it is much more critical for a trans person who has realised an identity deeply enough to inspire them to transition.
I mean: I don't even care about my own gender – call me whatever. At certain times, I have an attraction one way or the other. I'm married to a woman. I'm a father. These facts are all true but I honestly couldn't care what pronouns or gender or sex you write down, for me. This is probably why I started this topic: I'm trying to understand how this is for others who care far more than I do.
I don't care but I do care to honour those who do care. I certainly care to honour those who care enough to choose to transition!
But oh dear, though. That does not help me. I'd love to call your hypothetical trans woman a woman on purpose but that would require me to notice what she thinks "normal" people "normally" notice and, yeah: autistic. Maybe I'll stop defaulting to "they" / "them" – at least online – and default to confused-blob-cat or something for pronouns.
No, call people you don’t know they/them until otherwise corrected and if they get pissy about it that’s their fault and not yours.
There’s real serious problems out there, being upset over being accidentally “misgendered” by having no gender recognition at all is fucking ridiculous attention seeking me me me behavior.
I cannot agree.
I have very week, most frequently non-existent gender allegiance but I do know that there's a tonne of stuff that's odd about me and I often am offended or driven off by people who do things that simply don't work with my mind-set so I can well understand why being "misgendered" (sarcasm quotes: yours.) might just be a thing that drives someone else away.
I'm not here because I'm accepting "fault" upon myself. I'm here because I want to be part of a tolerant future and I feel that this is important given the trajectory straight into hell that we are clearly currently set upon. I'm here because I'd at least like to ask "why" before I decide how I will behave in relation to others.
I choose to live as if the world was one in which I'd choose to live and, in that world, people get to choose their identities however they please. I can't relate to why someone takes offence at "they"/"them" but, if they are offended, I can and will accept that and, conversely, I would wish that they might realise that I will surely make mistakes and get this wrong even if I do or did understand.
This is the only fair deal: I try in good faith, they understand and offer the benefit of the doubt.
I don't perceive any attention-seeking but that's besides the point. Even if they choose to seek attention, I don't begrudge them that: sometimes, people seek attention. Why should I object?
Getting mad about being “misgendered” by a stranger calling you the gender neutral they/them for the first time until otherwise specified isn’t behavior that’s acting in good faith but rather narcissistic attention seeking faux outrage.