Why are so many Pro-Palestine (I am pro-Palestine and anti-genocide) Americans refusing to vote for Harris due to her stance on Israel?
Why are so many Pro-Palestine (I am pro-Palestine and anti-genocide) Americans refusing to vote for Harris due to her stance on Israel?
As the title states I am confused on this matter. The way I see it, the USA has a two party system and in the next few weeks they’re either going to have Trump or Harris as president, come inauguration day. With this in mind doesn’t it make sense to vote for the person least likely to escalate the situation even more.
Giving your vote to an independent or worse not voting at all, just gives more of a chance for Trump to win the election and then who knows what crazy stuff he will allow, or encourage, Israel to get away with.
I really don’t get the logic. As sure nobody wants to vote for a party allowing these heinous crimes to be committed, but given you’re getting one of them shouldn’t you be voting for the one that will be the least horrible of the two.
Please don’t come at me with pro-Israeli rhetoric as this isn’t the post for that, I’m asking about why people would make such choices and I’m not up for debate on the Middle East, on this post, you can DM me for that.
Edit: Bedtime here now so will respond to incoming comments in the morning, love starting the day with an inbox full 😊.
Edit 2: This blew up, it’s a little overwhelming right now but I do intent on replying to everybody that took the time to comment. Just need to get in the right headspace.
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To push her to change her stance... you only own your vote. That's the only leverage. She is the reason they aren't voting for her.
That logic should apply to Trump as well. 🤷♂️
Correct! That's a great reason not to vote for either of them.
Then again, pragmatically, voting for the lesser evil of the two could make a big difference when voting for another candidate or not at all could have zero effect. ☹️
Pragmatically, Harris losing votes should make her understand the need to not support a genocide. But no, we have to lay the burden on everyone else but her.
Or of curiosity, what's Trump's stance on the genocide? Isn't he equally pro/complacent? Or has he voiced his discontent with Israel in any way?
What does that have to with anything? No one's claiming that Trump would be good on Palestine or that you should vote for him, it's a whataboutism.
Like I said, I'm asking out of curiosity, not to make a point, so this is not whataboutism. 👍 I'm a European citizen so I can't influence anything, I'm just trying to learn here.
Then let me provide some context. Trump and Harris are both hawks who fully and unconditionally support arming Israel and slaughtering people in the Middle East. The same was true in 2020, when it Biden v Trump, in 2016, when it was Clinton v Trump, in 2012 when it was Obama v Romney, in 2008 when it was Obama v McCain, in 2004 when it was Kerry v Bush, and arguably even in 2000 when it was Gore v Bush
Those of us who are doves have been waiting for over 20 years for a candidate who isn't an extremist hawk who wants to commit mass slaughter on the other side of the world, where it can safely be kept out of sight and out of mind. Neither party has ever delivered on that. The military-industrial complex is extremely large and extremely lucrative for politicians, and it has only gotten larger and more influential under Biden - as well as being much more deadly than ever, with what's happening in Gaza.
We'll never just be handed a choice to get in the way of that system, but it absolutely must end. The only ways of accomplishing that are 1) forcing politicians to oppose it by making our votes conditional on that issue, or 2) building our own party from the ground up that's committed to opposing it. Otherwise we will keep seeking out new conflicts until we end up kicking off WWIII, and ofc in the meantime it will be impossible to fix the numerous crippling domestic issues we're facing because so much of our money is tied up in bombs.
Very interesting.
But hold on, I was under the impression that the government donates military materials to Israel. What do they stand to gain financially or politically from supporting Israel, really? This is what I don't get, honestly and genuinely.
There's a difference between the government's interests and the interests of individual politicians. Politicians don't have access to public funds, in the same way they have access to the money in their bank accounts, so public funds must be transferred into the private sector. The easiest way to do this is through military contractors like Raytheon and Lockheed Martin. There's a rampant and widespread conflict of interest where politicians give those companies lucrative contracts and the companies have various ways of giving them kickbacks. All the politicians have to do then is to sell the public on spending more on the military.
As long as the companies are paid, it doesn't matter whether the money is coming from domestic taxpayers or from other countries. In the case of Israel, there are also various lobbying groups focused on that issue who can also reward politicians from doing what they want. So yes the US government may be giving the weapons away for free, but the individual politicians are getting paid, so what do they care?
Before the 90's, it was easy to do that because they could just point to the Soviet Union as a threat (even though we massively outspent them even then). During the 90's, there was a period of relative peace, which was a crisis for the shareholders, and there was some expectation that the bloated military budget could be cut, since the primary threat is was supposedly there to counter disappeared. But with 9/11, they found a new threat to justify it. Once those wars wound down, then it became China, Russia, and Hamas. If if weren't them, it would be something else, and if they couldn't find something else they'd simply create it. There must always be some existential threat to justify the spending, or else the war profiteers stand to lose a lot of money.
How are you asking out of curiosity when you already seem to know what Trumps's stance is on?
Actually yes, and that may one day even break the deadlock American politicians put onto their failed two party system.
I mean it does doesn't it? Trump supports can also threaten not to vote for him if he continues bad policies.
But we are talking about Harris supporters here. If Americans don't even have a real vote with real value then what would stop Harris or Trump policies that will eventually render everyone in Gaza dead? If you can't even speak to politicians with your own vote and if they don't even value your vote, then how are we going to achieve anything?
Harris is the one losing votes for her shitty policy. It's not the fault of the voter. It's the fault of the candidate.
You're absolutely right, in an ideal situation.
But as you also said, "we are talking about Harris supporters here", so my original comment is kind of irrelevant to the topic of the post, probably. I'll stand down in this context. 😁