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I feel like most people who hate on 4e didn't play it much, but enjoy feeling like they're part of the group.
Yeah, 4e doesn't deserve the hate it gets. I found it much more mechanically engaging to play than 3.X or 5e.
4e was when WotC discovered D&D has a very large problem - it's not allowed to change anything, for worse or better.
4e was when WotC discovered D&D has a very large problem - it’s not allowed to change anything, for worse or better.
This is true.
They're so close to discovering dice pool with advantage/disadvantage.
I started thinking about a 5e hack that converts the whole thing to a dice pool system. Instead of 1d20+X, it's Xd20. You can then have degree of success via "how many dice hit the number?" and degree of difficulty via "you have to hit X times"
There's a ton of other stuff I'd love to see changed. Mostly around the adventuring day and only-spellcasters-get-cool-stuff
Well, I have good news! There's a huge number of other systems out there, most of them are quite good, and there's plenty of very interesting mechanical innovation going on. I encourage you to explore, D&D isn't the only game in town. ;-)
I'm well aware. I have a weekly game of Fate, and played a lot of nWoD over the years. The trouble is usually finding players.
Also sometimes players who only play D&D pick up bad habits and narrow views of things, and it can be hard to change their habits. In my Fate game, the players often forget the wide range of things they can spend fate points on,
I was about to say, if you like dice pools try nWoD/CoD lol.
As for FATE, my players have the same problem. And I forget to compel a lot of the time to give them FATE points, which doesn't help, either.
In my first couple Fate games I didn't get a lot of good compels in. But in this game my players have 3 aspects right now that are super easy to compel on:
- "maybe the answer is violence"
- "compulsive truth teller"
- "[hostile NPC faction] bounty on your head"
If the players are dicking around too much, compel on maybe the answer is violence - get in there and do something. Fucking around with the NPC instead of advancing the plot? Compel to tell the truth and let's see what blows up. And if all else fails, fuck it, some goons from Razor can show up.
It's been a lot of fun.
The players haven't quite got a handle on self-compels yet, though.
Agreed. With how many people started with 5e the older 3.5 cohort who shat all over 4e are in the minority. Plus I feel like a 5e player would more easily transfer over to 4e then 3.5