ValueSubtracted

ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

We all know what happened when Jim Kirk went to the movies.

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ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

Paramount fumbled it pretty badly from the beginning, with it being a Nickelodeon (the channel) show, until it wasn't.

And Netflix evidently didn't care to commission more once they acquired the rights.

The chances are indeed slim, but considering the state of Paramount right now...sure, shoot your shot.

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ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

Well yeah, my understanding of the Maquis' formation of an armed resistance must definitely shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of everything they did.

What was the question again?

All we wanted to know was whether a hot dog is a sandwich...

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ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

if they have specific details they hammered out with these descendants of native americans, I don’t thing was specified in the episode.

There was an agreement made with Gul Evek - as you said, for them to be under Cardassian jurisdiction, if not full citizens:

PICARD: Anthwara, I want to make absolutely sure that you understand the implications of this agreement. By giving up your status as Federation citizens, any future request you or your people make to Starfleet will go unanswered. You will be on your own and under Cardassian jurisdiction.

ANTHWARA: I understand, Captain. And we are prepared to take that risk. Will the Cardassian government honour your agreement here?

GUL EVEK: I believe I can convince them that this is an equitable solution. I cannot speak for every Cardassian you may encounter, but if you leave us alone I suspect that we will do the same. Will this be acceptable to the Starfleet Command?

PICARD: It will not be easy, but with Admiral Necheyev's support, I think they will go along with it in the end.

However, that's not the way things went down:

HUDSON: I knew him. Bill Samuels was a farmer. He cultivated his land for twenty years. He raised two kids on that land. He made something out of that land and the Federation told him he had to give it all up to the Cardassians. Well, he just was not willing to do that.

SISKO: And it was people like him who made both sides realise that some accommodation had to be made for the colonies so they could stay.

HUDSON: The Cardassians have no intention of allowing these people to stay. They will either force them out or they will kill them. It's already started. Not a day goes when there's not some random act of violence against our people. Every Federation colonist knows you do not go out alone at night. Can you imagine living in that kind of fear?

SISKO: If you're saying the Cardassian authorities are not enforcing the laws, we can-

HUDSON: Enforcing the laws? The Cardassian authorities were part of a mob that stoned two colonists on the streets of Ropal City three days ago.

SISKO: That's something the Federation can take up with the Cardassians at the highest level.

HUDSON: Well, that will help a lot. The word is the Cardassian High Command is arming their colonists to the teeth.

Those are the events that led to the Maquis as a resistance movement - before that, there were no Maquis, just colonists who stayed behind.

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ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

You really want to split hairs about the fine details of fake politics?

It's sort of the point of the thread, so it seems a little odd to suddenly try to make it sound silly.

My interpretation of the events is that eventually the butt of a Cardassian rifle is going to welcome it’s new home in the heads of one of these native american settlers, and they are going to lament their choices.

This interpretation is completely correct, but it sidesteps the two fundamental questions.

Do the colonists have the right to refuse to leave (I think you've made your position in that clear), and if so, do they have the right to defend themselves when the Cardassians violate the terms that they agreed to and tried to drive them off those worlds?

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ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

you set up base there about 20 years ago

For the sake of argument, how many years is the cutoff that flips it from "fine" to "evil"?

you will get more than handsomely rewarded with an equal or bigger piece of land on a different planet and not be inconvenienced

Citation needed? I don't think that was ever stated, and "Journey's End" is actually pretty clear about a new home having not even been identified.

it is to stop an interplanetary war.

The Federation and the Cardassians were not at war when the treaty was signed...

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ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

Get the colonisers (which is what these fucking people are) to go there.

You could say the exact same thing about the Cardassians.

I don't see any good way to fill in the blank where "forced relocation is fine when _____" is the sentence.

ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

But that does kinda match the absurdity of the episode.

Yeah, I think it was an appropriate resolution for the genre they were playing in.

Mind you, I felt the same way last week.

ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

His middle finger on his right hand was amputated, but he didn't have a prosthetic as far as I know - he just strategically positioned his hand so the camera couldn't see it.

He did a pretty good job, but there are occasional moments where it's noticeable.

I don't know if the scene in this episode was an intentional nod to that, but I thought of it, as well.

ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

You have not experienced Bonnie Tyler until you have heard her in the original Klingon.

I'm not sure there's a lot to say about this one. I enjoyed it. The jokes didn't land quite as well as they should have, but I have to take some responsibility for watching a stoner comedy at 9 am.

The Spirk enthusiasts should be pretty happy, though.

ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

I’d bet it’s not the first, or last time they’ve done something like that.

You could say there's a bit of a history.

ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

Don Warrington did a good job

For sure - he made the most of that role.

The earpod hack could be more subtle.

But you've gotta have the handles!

Torchwood is repeatedly mentioned in this episode, which doesn’t make sense. Torchwood only came about because the doctor existed in the main universe.

That's...a very interesting point that I hadn't considered.

ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 2w ago

Yeah, I guess my issue with Lumic is that I feel like he should either be more charismatic, or far less - a real Zuckerberg type. As it is, he strikes me as something in between.

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ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 3w ago

I came in to this one expecting to hate on it a little bit, but it's not really bad - it's just doing too much.

This two-parter is basically all table-setting for the finale, and this one in particular is stuck (re-)introducing the Cybermen and establishing this parallel universe, which could (or should) each be a separate story on their own. It's a lot of heavy lifting, all in service of an episode we won't see for another month.

But there's a lot to like! The Doctor's dismissiveness toward Mickey is awful, but I find it funny every single time. The aspects of the story that are a pseudo-sequel to "Father's Day" work very well - it's always fun to see Pete again, and this version of him really does seem the-same-but-different - ditto for Jackie. Noel Clarke - scandal noted - also does a good job when it comes to Mickey's sudden backstory.

That said, Clarke is really not good as Ricky - I don't know if he was directed to play the character the way that he did, but it was a bad choice. And John Lumic is a bland and forgettable villain. Since the Cybermen are rather bland by their nature, you'd hope that their creator would have personality and charisma to spare, but it's just not the case here.

I'm not a big fan of Cybermen stories in general - a bunch of emotionless killing machines aren't the most compelling, though from what I can remember, the next episode wrings some good drama out of the body horror of it all. Like the Borg, I find them to be a bit of a dead end, made interesting only by what's going on around them. In this case, the themes of the people of Pete's World giving themselves over to an omnipresent app and wearable technology is better now than it was 20 years ago.

ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 3w ago

Yeah, I think I remember thinking the same thing.

I suppose that it would be sensible to keep someone with the shuttle Just In Case, though, and the Doc would certainly be more welcome on Kasq.

ValueSubtracted @startrek.website 3w ago

A dreamer. I like it.